Mintoff a great man?

[malsey]

I am watching SUper1 tv, about Workers Day. I believe Mintoff was a great man. In a few years he increased 28% of his new MLP party. PN and the old MLP of boffa governed together in order to leave Mintoff in opposition. Mintoff split the party because the british wanted to end the job of 1500 maltese workers. Mintoff was the ONLY man, who didnt except this proposal. He formed a new party and fought the british.
He made a statement. or intergration or self determination. Means or we are equal to british or just leave.
If this man left just a bit of free market, I believe that with him Malta would have been a better place than it is today. Gonzi and Sant don't have 30% of his abilities.

[Artist]

Mintoff jilghab wrol importanti fl-istorja socjo-ekonomika ta' Malta.
Thobbu jew tobghodu.
Irid jghidi z-zmien biex l-istorja tinkiteb fuq id-decizjonijiet li ha.

[Freedom]

If this man left just a bit of free market, I believe that with him Malta would have been a better place than it is today.

This sums it all. The closed market in the early 80s pruduced a counter-reaction of free market and capitalism. Basically the worst thing for malta was the sudden transition from mlp to pn in the 80s.

Certainly mintoff did a lot of great things, mainly that of toppling the church from power.

However i disagree with his socialism as an end..and not as a means. Basically the worst mistake he could do were corporate welfares.

[malsey]

Artist l istorja fuqu qatt ma se tinkiteb kif suppost. Tinsiex dan il bniedem iggieled mall knisja, pn u issa anka MLP. Komplejt nara id dokumentarju u iktar sirt naf il hsara li ghamel l isqof gonzi. Dan ma rridtx integration ghax skont hu kien se jidhol id divorce:confused: Tobodu jew le kif ghidt inti mintoff gab 4 fabbriki go malta li sal lum jaghmlu fuq 50% tal exports tal pajjiz. Jekk dawn jitilqu malta tfalli. Ma ninsewx wkol il fatt, li fil finanzi qatt ma se naraw bhalu. kien iggieb flus minn kull rokna tad dinja u xorta baqa kwazi jmexxi b mod dittatorjat il pajjizna.



Mintoff jilghab wrol importanti fl-istorja socjo-ekonomika ta' Malta.
Thobbu jew tobghodu.
Irid jghidi z-zmien biex l-istorja tinkiteb fuq id-decizjonijiet li ha.

[Cikku]

One has to think very deeply before saying anything for or against.

One has to KNOW EXACTLY what led to the "closing" of certain markets (i.e. no importation) ; I have NOTHING good to say about those days because I was an importer from ALL the countries on which there was import restrictions AND I STILL HAD TO PAY THE WAGES without having anything to sell ! AND in those days there was also the "inner circle of friends" or "hbieb tal-hbieb" (Of which I DID NOT form part) and these "friends" got import licenses freely !

When a Governing party loses election, the opposition comes into power WITHOUT ANY TRANSITION PERIOD. It has to be the leadership that applies the brakes a bit and not try to ridicule the previous Government by STUPIDLY saying it is now a free for all. The outflow of foreign currency was crazy as soon as the NP came to power ! And at that time we still had some good Industry and a good tourist industry -- NOW it's nearly ALL gone !

So, WITHOUT ANY PARTY PASSIONS, stop and think seriously and genuinely what was or is best for MALTA.

:confused:

[Artist]

Fejn jidhlu l-bzonnijiet bazici ta' l-individwu, il-politika ta' Mintoff kienet success.
Sfortunatament wehlet f'dak l-istadju.

[Angelfish]

This sums it all. The closed market in the early 80s pruduced a counter-reaction of free market and capitalism. Basically the worst thing for malta was the sudden transition from mlp to pn in the 80s.

Certainly mintoff did a lot of great things, mainly that of toppling the church from power.

However i disagree with his socialism as an end..and not as a means. Basically the worst mistake he could do were corporate welfares.

And I imagine you lived through the years of Mintoff's rule of course, including the time Mintoff was works minister and then prime minister in the fifties. Which makes you very knowledgable on the situation of course.
;)

[PERICLES]

And I imagine you lived through the years of Mintoff's rule of course, including the time Mintoff was works minister and then prime minister in the fifties. Which makes you very knowledgable on the situation of course.
;)

You remember those days as well? So how old are you? Over 60? :D

[malsey]

Il problema nahseb li kif qal tajjeb artist, li ta certu affarijiet basici li sa dak iz zmien ma kelniex. pero l gheluq ta l ekonomija zejda li kellu kien xi haga tal ghageb. hemm nemmen li fotta kollox.Korruzjoni mhux se nitkellem ghax dawn ghamlu daqsu. li ghamel u ta socjalist kien jiehu bicca minghand kullhadd bhal trid thallas ghall telephone. Dawn tendor ta miljun ihalsu 2 u at the end qed jisirquwhommill poplu xorta.

[Angelfish]

not over sixty at all, but I have plenty of relatives who had business with him in one way or another in those long ago days of the fifties and when I was very young I used to hang around hearing the adults relate a lot of very interesting stuff that never actually made it to the media of those days but which would make very interesting reading. And same goes for what used to go behind the scenes in the seventies and early eighties.
:)

[Cikku]

All of you kindly bear in mind that he who stirs the pot knows what's in it !! Bil-Malti, minn ihawwad il-borma jkun jaf x'fija !!

And to remember those days, i.e. the 50's, vividly you have to be at least 65-70.

[Artist]

Malsey, l-akbar zball li wettaq kien li honoq il-kreattivita' ta' l-individwu.

[Angelfish]

All of you kindly bear in mind that he who stirs the pot knows what's in it !! Bil-Malti, minn ihawwad il-borma jkun jaf x'fija !!

And to remember those days, i.e. the 50's, vividly you have to be at least 65-70.

Werll Cikk, if what you show is your real age, them I can safely tell you that I am quite a few years younger then you .

:) :)

[Gladiator]

Mintoff was Great Man?

Dak hu capassna mal-Gharab. Grazi tieghu:mad:

[Freedom]

Fuq kollox nitkellmu imma fej tidhol il-'politika' maltija...eeee dik delikata..shhh ghalaq halqek guz ghax dik delikata!!
Xil-alla, ma titkellimx fuq l-istorja int angelfish? Ghixt fi zmien il-medjuevu jew fi zmien il-hagar? X'inhi r-raguni li minn tant affarijiet fid-dinja, il-politika maltija biss trid tkun ghixt biex titkellem fuqha?

[Marco Polo]

Fuq kollox nitkellmu imma fej tidhol il-'politika' maltija...eeee dik delikata..shhh ghalaq halqek guz ghax dik delikata!!
Xil-alla, ma titkellimx fuq l-istorja int angelfish? Ghixt fi zmien il-medjuevu jew fi zmien il-hagar? X'inhi r-raguni li minn tant affarijiet fid-dinja, il-politika maltija biss trid tkun ghixt biex titkellem fuqha?

thats just angelfish for you.

[Virgil]

It tajjeb ta Mintoff



Haga li spiss tigi minsija, hi li Mintoff kien jghix fi zmien meta Malta kienet ghaddejja min sitwazzjoni delikata hafna, pajjiz li ghadu kemm hareg min damdim ta gwerra mondjali (ma ninsewx li Malta kienet per area, l aktar pajjiz li qala bombi fl WW2), pajjiz fqir imexxi ghal eluf ta snin mil kolonjalisti u l Knisja kattolika, tmexxija tal azzar li ma kien igawdi hadd minnha hlief l ismijiet koncernati. Duminku Mintoff irnexxilu fejn bosta nies fallew. Ha r riedni ta dan l pajjiz, razzan l poter esagerat tal knisja u kecca l kolonjaturi. Mintoff kien ukoll importanti immense biex ixxiftja l poter mis sinjur u l kleru (tinsewx li qabel biex tivvota ried ikollok dar) ghal fqir, ta l opportunita lil fqir biex iqum fuq saqajh, jghix hajja dicenti u tah t tghalim. Kien leader sod, li ma kien jibza min xejn u min hadd, u d dixxiplina tieghu tawna l bazi soda biex nibnu dal pajjiz. Kieku ma kienx Mintoff l PN ma seta QATT jaghmel dak li ghamel.



Il Hazin ta Mintoff



Huma bosta, l affarijiet hziena li adminisstrazzjoni Mintoffjana huma akkuzati (rightly so) fuqhom. Vjolenza, korruzzjoni, preferenzi, fanatizmu politika huma l ewwel affarijiet li jiguk fmohhok biss affarijiet ohra bhal allejanza mal Libya (meta fi zmien t tmenijiet kien tant facli ninaqghad ma front Ewropej li kienu lesti li jghinuk (bi gwerra bierda s superpotenzi kienu jitqahbu biex jigbru kemm jifilhu sahha), d diskrimminazzjoni fuq n nisa, fuq l istudenti universitarji etc huma affarijiet ohra li haqqhom kritika. Biss nemmen li l akbar hsara li ghamel Mintoff (li tigbor l ‘crimes’ kollha li saru fi zmienu) hi propja li dahal l mentalita Socjalista fdal pajjiz. Mentalita li tghidlek li l gvern hu d daddy, u bhala daddy ghandu d dritt jaghmel li jrid bik u dmir li jiehu hsiebek.taghmel x taghmel, mentalita fejn min hu brillanti u hadem iebes irid jghati nofs gidu lil min ma jrid jaghmel xejn. Dil mentalita addottawa anke l PN, u hi propja din l mentalita li qed teqred dal pajjiz. Illum l aktar talent brillanti fdal pajjiz (l ewwel fil lista t tobba) qed jitilqu mil pajjiz ghax ma jifilhux aktar din d diskrimminazzjoni fuqhom. Issa ghiduli intom pajjiz kollhu single parents, nies illeterati bid dole, u refugjati MIN SER IHALLAS T TAXXI? Ghax fdik id direzzjoni sejrin.

[malsey]

Reputation point. ;) all the truth what u said. Pn are far worse, because they continued on socialism u terga jridu jserqhu is sinjuruni kbar wkoll.

[Cristoforo]

It tajjeb ta Mintoff



Haga li spiss tigi minsija, hi li Mintoff kien jghix fi zmien meta Malta kienet ghaddejja min sitwazzjoni delikata hafna, pajjiz li ghadu kemm hareg min damdim ta gwerra mondjali (ma ninsewx li Malta kienet per area, l aktar pajjiz li qala bombi fl WW2), pajjiz fqir imexxi ghal eluf ta snin mil kolonjalisti u l Knisja kattolika, tmexxija tal azzar li ma kien igawdi hadd minnha hlief l ismijiet koncernati. Duminku Mintoff irnexxilu fejn bosta nies fallew. Ha r riedni ta dan l pajjiz, razzan l poter esagerat tal knisja u kecca l kolonjaturi. Mintoff kien ukoll importanti immense biex ixxiftja l poter mis sinjur u l kleru (tinsewx li qabel biex tivvota ried ikollok dar) ghal fqir, ta l opportunita lil fqir biex iqum fuq saqajh, jghix hajja dicenti u tah t tghalim. Kien leader sod, li ma kien jibza min xejn u min hadd, u d dixxiplina tieghu tawna l bazi soda biex nibnu dal pajjiz. Kieku ma kienx Mintoff l PN ma seta QATT jaghmel dak li ghamel.



Il Hazin ta Mintoff



Huma bosta, l affarijiet hziena li adminisstrazzjoni Mintoffjana huma akkuzati (rightly so) fuqhom. Vjolenza, korruzzjoni, preferenzi, fanatizmu politika huma l ewwel affarijiet li jiguk fmohhok biss affarijiet ohra bhal allejanza mal Libya (meta fi zmien t tmenijiet kien tant facli ninaqghad ma front Ewropej li kienu lesti li jghinuk (bi gwerra bierda s superpotenzi kienu jitqahbu biex jigbru kemm jifilhu sahha), d diskrimminazzjoni fuq n nisa, fuq l istudenti universitarji etc huma affarijiet ohra li haqqhom kritika. Biss nemmen li l akbar hsara li ghamel Mintoff (li tigbor l ‘crimes’ kollha li saru fi zmienu) hi propja li dahal l mentalita Socjalista fdal pajjiz. Mentalita li tghidlek li l gvern hu d daddy, u bhala daddy ghandu d dritt jaghmel li jrid bik u dmir li jiehu hsiebek.taghmel x taghmel, mentalita fejn min hu brillanti u hadem iebes irid jghati nofs gidu lil min ma jrid jaghmel xejn. Dil mentalita addottawa anke l PN, u hi propja din l mentalita li qed teqred dal pajjiz. Illum l aktar talent brillanti fdal pajjiz (l ewwel fil lista t tobba) qed jitilqu mil pajjiz ghax ma jifilhux aktar din d diskrimminazzjoni fuqhom. Issa ghiduli intom pajjiz kollhu single parents, nies illeterati bid dole, u refugjati MIN SER IHALLAS T TAXXI? Ghax fdik id direzzjoni sejrin.









Din probabli l-iżjed view oġġettiva u imparzjali li qatt rajt fuq Mintoff. Prosit :)

[Virgil]

:o :o :o :o :o

thank you guys!!!!!

[Cikku]

Werll Cikk, if what you show is your real age, them I can safely tell you that I am quite a few years younger then you . -- originally posted by Angelfish

YES Angelfish, 58 is my REAL age, actually 59 next July -- ALL MINE and proud too !!

You may be wondering why I'm proud of my age; well, my age signifies the GREATEST UNIVERSITY ON EARTH -- experience !!

;)

[Cikku]

GREAT post Virgil and accurate as far as PUBLIC KNOWLEDGE goes. Skeletons are best left in cupboards.

;)

[Virgil]

U min mghandux skeletri Cikk?

Hawn biex jaghmel fejn jidher u hawn min jaghmel fejn ma jidhirx

BTW qabel ma xi hadd ipingini laburista. le miniex laburista.

[Cristoforo]

GREAT post Virgil and accurate as far as PUBLIC KNOWLEDGE goes. Skeletons are best left in cupboards.

;)

No, what cupboards! History should be told, all. Dear Cikku, share with us (youngsters lacking experience) some interesting story ;)

[Cikku]

No, what cupboards! History should be told, all. Dear Cikku, share with us (youngsters lacking experience) some interesting story -- originally posted by Cristoforo

Cristoforo, no offence meant, but it would be very imprudent, unpatriotic and a snitch if I were to mention ANYTHING else other than what Virgil posted. From what I can tell, you will not learn much, OTHERWISE I WOULD POST IT. I am no Labourite or socialist either but most of you know me well by now, I call a spade a spade but to tell "private" matters in public, especially about a person who is no longer a public figure is not fair, imho.

[Cikku]

U min mghandux skeletri Cikk? -- originally posted by Virgil

EVERYBODY HAS SKELETONS Virgil !

[Virgil]

Cristoforo, no offence meant, but it would be very imprudent, unpatriotic and a snitch if I were to mention ANYTHING else other than what Virgil posted. From what I can tell, you will not learn much, OTHERWISE I WOULD POST IT. I am no Labourite or socialist either but most of you know me well by now, I call a spade a spade but to tell "private" matters in public, especially about a person who is no longer a public figure is not fair, imho.

Habib hawn hafna li jiprovaw jaghmlu hekk. Jien wiehed minnhom u anke Cristoforo jiprova jaghmel hekk ukoll

Naturalment jekk ahna zbaljati (u hawn qed nghida b umilta) urina fejn

[Cikku]

Habib hawn hafna li jiprovaw jaghmlu hekk. Jien wiehed minnhom u anke Cristoforo jiprova jaghmel hekk ukoll

Naturalment jekk ahna zbaljati (u hawn qed nghida b umilta) urina fejn -- originally posted by Virgil


Whilst I agree that many people would act that way, I am sure that neither you nor Cristoforo intended any smearing. What we were stating here is all in the public domain and as such no "secrets" were revealed and no smearing was done, imho.
;)

[malsey]

Voldiri hemm cans li jfiequ xi darba peppi u margerat lol:D :D :D

YES Angelfish, 58 is my REAL age, actually 59 next July -- ALL MINE and proud too !!

You may be wondering why I'm proud of my age; well, my age signifies the GREATEST UNIVERSITY ON EARTH -- experience !!

;)

[Cikku]

Voldiri hemm cans li jfiequ xi darba peppi u margerat lol --malsey

Heqq, dik ma nafx hux !!!!!!!!!!
:confused:

[Macchiavelli]

Lord Carrington interviewed on Anglo-Maltese dispute



http://www.timesofmalta.com/images/20060203_loc_29.jpgLord Peter Carrington (centre) with Mark Fenech (left) and Henry Frendo, reminiscing on his experiences on the Anglo-Maltese Crisis of 1971/72.
The Anglo-Maltese dispute over the British base in Malta during 1971/72 will be one of the themes in the 20-part TV documentary series L-Istorja Minn Wara L-Kwinti which is to be broadcast on TVM from February 13.
A team which included Mark Fenech, Henry Frendo and Chris Pace of Blaze Productions Ltd recently went to London to interview Lord Peter Carrington who, as then British Foreign Secretary, had led difficult and painstaking negotiations with former Prime Minister Dom Mintoff during that period. Lord Carrington, who answered questions by Prof. Frendo, reminisced on his experiences of the Anglo-Maltese crisis and on his impressions of Mr Mintoff and his negotiating skills.
The interview, which took place at Lord Carrington's private residence in London, was made possible following contacts by the Malta High Commissioner in London Michael Refalo.
Dr Fenech and Prof Frendo also visited Marlborough House, the place where the Malta Independence Conference was held and where various recordings for the TV series were done. Air Malta sponsored the team's one-day visit to London.
http://www.timesofmalta.com/core/article.php?id=213591

Perhaps this interview will shed some light, although the production team admittedly is too PN biased.

[malsey]

Taqbel jew le ma mintoff hadd ma jinnega li kien neguzjatur kbir. Kellu bzonn gonzi tal lum ghandu mqar 20% tal hiliet tieghu. Mintoff ghamel zbalji bhal ma ghamel haddiehor, pero almenu kien ihobb il art twelidu u jigi jitmejjel mill barranin. illum gonzi mohhu biex art twelidna isahhaha fid diversita fosthom religjonijiet ohra.

[Angelfish]

Taqbel jew le ma mintoff hadd ma jinnega li kien neguzjatur kbir. Kellu bzonn gonzi tal lum ghandu mqar 20% tal hiliet tieghu. Mintoff ghamel zbalji bhal ma ghamel haddiehor, pero almenu kien ihobb il art twelidu u jigi jitmejjel mill barranin. illum gonzi mohhu biex art twelidna isahhaha fid diversita fosthom religjonijiet ohra.
Neguzjatur kbir as in haggling over the price of a sack of chick peas in a souk?
:):):)