The Issue Of Abortion

[Artist]

The issue of abortion is intractable, partly because of the absence of any other case to which it can be assimilated. The relationship between a woman and her unborn child is both non-transferable and original: the child comes into existence in and through the woman, and the question of its rights and welfare cannot be considered in complete isolation from the question of the rights and welfare of its mother. Some deny that that an unborn child is a person, and on that ground deny it the right to life.

On this view the only question of rights is that which concerns the woman: does she have a ‘right to choose’ whether to give birth? If the pregnancy is unwanted, what right has another to compel her to proceed with it? It seems arbitrary, however, to say that the divided between person and non-person occurs at birth. The alternative positions are many: some see the foetus as a person, but believe that the case is one of conflicting rights. Others argue that the language of rights is wholly inadequate to capture the nature of the obligation towards the unborn child.

In my point of view, abortion must be considered only in these two particular cases, due to the fact that an extremely serious conflict of interest exists.


1. When a severe handicap is present.

2. When the foetus is the product of rape.



In this scenario, I believe that the rights of the mother surpass the rights of the foetus.

[malsey]

I tend to agree with you.

i also believe contraception pills and condoms should be free of charge. You may laugh at me but tell me for a 16 year old student who have sex daily ( ghax dik l eta jkollok sahna kbira):D jista jixtri xi lm5 condoms fil gimgha:D
Il JRS should start teaching this to our children




The issue of abortion is intractable, partly because of the absence of any other case to which it can be assimilated. The relationship between a woman and her unborn child is both non-transferable and original: the child comes into existence in and through the woman, and the question of its right and welfare cannot be considered in complete isolation from the question of the rights and welfare of its mother. Some deny that that an unborn child is a person, and on that ground deny it the right to life.

On this view the only question of rights is that which concerns the woman: does she have a ‘right to choose’ whether to give birth? If the pregnancy is unwanted, what right has another to compel her to proceed with it? It seems arbitrary, however, to say that the divided between person and non-person occurs at birth. The alternative positions are many: some see the foetus as a person, but believe that the case is one of conflicting rights. Others argue that the language of rights is wholly inadequate to capture the nature of the obligation towards the unborn child.

In my point of view, abortion must be considered only in these two particular cases, due to the fact that an extremely serious conflict of interest exists.

When a severe handicap is present.
When the foetus is the product of rape.
In this scenario, I believe that the rights of the mother surpass the rights of the foetus.

[PERICLES]

I've added a poll on this issue.

[etoile noir]

i disagree with the concept of abortion. in cases of rape or incest [or both] the woman should make use of the "morning after" pill, thus eliminating the need for abortion, which i consider murder of the most innocent.

"the child comes into existence in and through the woman"

through the woman yes, but not from the woman. A child is a person unto him/herself. you might find this interesting, it's by K Gibran:

Your children are not your children.

They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.

They come through you but not from you,

And though they are with you, yet they belong not to you.

You may give them your love but not your thoughts.

For they have their own thoughts.

You may house their bodies but not their souls,

For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.

You may strive to be like them, but seek not to make them like you.

For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.

[Canadian Charlie]

The final decission is up to the mother to be and her partner.

But if the female was raped I do agree in abortion. If she is some 16 year old hoe and likes to ride the pony and gets knocked up. This is her responsibility and she must deal with it as an adult.

[whitecrow]

Canadian: when you refer to 16 year olds they are not "hoe" they are just stupid or looking for attention. Let not forget the kind of psychological pressure the world is putting on kids today :(

[Marco Polo]

I was always anti-abortion but I have exceptions in certain cases. As etoile said though, there is always the 'morning after pill'. I was told this was abortion too by maltese 'sex education' teachers when i brought the subject up!

If it were me and my partners own child I doubt i would want an abortion under any circumstances. It's just not in me.

[etoile noir]

agree with whitecrow.

CC please tone it down. thanks

[Marco Polo]

Canadian: when you refer to 16 year olds they are not "hoe" they are just stupid or looking for attention. Let not forget the kind of psychological pressure the world is putting on kids today :(

you are right. I know someone very close to me who made the same 'mistake'. Lovely kid though so I don't see it as bad anymore.

[Canadian Charlie]

There are some who like different partners and enjoy it everyday.

But if you're old enough to have sex, you're old enough to take the responsibility

[whitecrow]

sorry canadian thats just a cold cold hearted comment with no fundament hope you dont threat your kids that way if they happen to commit a mistake

[Canadian Charlie]

Whitecrow: Fair answer, yes very fair. As a parent you teach your kids the right things about life and hope they listen to you in the end.

[whitecrow]

yes canadian, may I agree on you on this point but partially - now what about those girls whose parents wouldn't even bother to give a decent ammount - ahseb u ara talking them about life and teaching them to respect their bodies and love themselves and respect their body and their humanity

P.S. their are parents so ignorant that would even talk to their kids about sex leaving it to teachers and friends - happy early grandparenting

[Artist]

And when a severe handicap is present?
I' don't want to live like those at Siggiewi.
Better never born.

[Marco Polo]

And when a severe handicap is present?
I' don't want to live like those at Siggiewi.
Better never born.

i just believe the option should be there in those cases. I also think that parents should take on the full responsibities of such a disabled child and not rely on state assistance.

I doubt that i would abort myself even in such cases.

[Canadian Charlie]

It is not that they are ignorant its just that some parents feel embarished on the subject.


We all heard the stories when a girl leaves her parent's house for the evening, goes to a friends house, changes into something sexy and goes to Paceville. Her parents think she went to a friends place and not Paceville

[whitecrow]

they should have killed mozart he also was handicapped

[whitecrow]

It is not that they are ignorant its just that some parents feel embarished on the subject.

signs of a decadent society

[Canadian Charlie]

Everyone is born with a form of handicap in the world. Some are worse than others.


No one is perfect in this world, not even Dr. Gonzi:D

[whitecrow]

I agree canadian

[Artist]

I doubt that i would abort myself even in such cases.[/QUOTE]

I doubt that you have never been there.
Surely, you will change your mind.

[Canadian Charlie]

Personally I've never been there but seen those clips on TV when they start collecting money each year for them. I always donate to them first and last

[Marco Polo]

actually i had always thought i would abort in such cases but i hadnt thought enough about it. if my wife wanted to keep the child i would support her and the child and if she wanted to abort i think i would still support her decision.

[Artist]

Canadian charlie, u Peppi tax-xarabank (L-IPOKRITA) jaghmel 'show' bl-angli tal-monsinjur.

[Ergo]

The issues of abortion are certainly multiple and one can rest assured that consenus will never be reached, merely because it is a subject that calls for moral, ethical, legal and social scrutiny.

However, i believe that this issue is very sensistive and not easy for anyone to examine and decide on (although some entities have). I would tend to argue that life is precious and therefore we need to thread very carefully when debating our arguments or contemplating executing a termination. As we know, there are circumstances in which abortion is legal as in critical medical conditions for the mother. However, we equally know that that only makes up a fraction of the thousands if not millions of terminations carried out each year around the world. It is interesting to see the number of abortions amongst teenagers soar over time and this is undoubtedly an alarming fact. However, this raises important questions around why so many unwanted pregnancies in the first instance ? Of course, without an action there can be no reaction and, put very simply, abortion is the reaction to an unwanted pregnancy. What's noteworthy here is that the most abortions taking place are amongst the younger people, also bearing in mind that statistics can never reflect the true 'number' because we always have the dark figures i.e. the abortions we don't know of and therefore the amount is always greater than the published facts. This clearly highlights a problem in the thinking and being of today's youngsters who are not aware of the consequences of their actions, often irresponsible ones, such as unprotected sexual intercourse.

We then also have the cases of Rape on young victims and i believe that different legal parametrs need to be in place for such complex circumstances. But yet again morals crop up. It is true that we can protect a 12 yr old rape victim from much trauma by allowing her to abort her unwanted child, however, on the other hand, how mature is that girl to take an informed decision of her own? Often it is parents who coerce her to do it 'for her sake' but also often she grows up to be a disturbed adult engulfed in guilt over the lost infant. So drawing a line of demarcation is arduous.

Tackling abortion equates with tackling worldwide crime. Can we ever tackle crime in our world ? The answer is we can try to curb it but we cannot eliminate it. We can net more people as biomedical technology advances but we cannot stop it. The same with abortion. Therefore, i believe that education is the sharpest tool society has in hand and if used well, through proper and honest educational programmes, then we may begin to redress the problem of abortion since the number of unwanted pregnancies would plummet.

Let us fight for education for it is at the base of life. Education is not merely about arithmetic or history but it's about Life Education that equips young people with the character and ego strength they will need as young adults and older adults.

Ergo.

PS: The images that follow are not intended to cause impression, rather they are intended to reflect the reality of what occurs in medical Abortion Procedures.

! caution by marco polo !: These images are very graphical and some may find them disturbing.

[PERICLES]

Those pictures are very touching. They definitely shake your conscious.

[Marco Polo]

whilst i thank ergo for those graphic images that show what abortion actually kills, i will discourage mothers from clicking on the images.

[Ergo]

As stated in my post, those pictures are only intended to reflect reality. Those pictures reflect clinical procedures at abortion clinics and rather than hide them i would argue for them to be included in educational programmes in order to educate youth about what abortion truly entails. Such educational inclusion should not be used to instill fear or guilt but rather to educate people about reality and those pictures are a true representation of that. Only by knowing the true facts can we take our own moral informed decision.

Ergo.

[PERICLES]

They don't need to click. They are still well visible. However they still have to remain there so that everyone understand the complexity of this issue.

[Marco Polo]

as thumbnails though they arent so graphic at least. I agree with the pics staying as it shows what abortion is.

[malsey]

I am not a doctor> however seems those pictures the baby is quite big. Honestly I believe that if abortion should be it should be done, during first month. Regards if you are raped you can use that special pill so that no baby will be formed.

[Canadian Charlie]

Those are some pretty sick pictures.

[EuropeanHybrid]

Just one simple question: Who has to take the risk of pregnancy and finally giving birth? Or abortion respectively?

[etoile noir]

Just one simple question: Who has to take the risk of pregnancy and finally giving birth? Or abortion respectively?

not a simple question at all EuroHybrid, not in my opinion.
what "risks" are there in pregnancy? and in giving birth? we're living in 2005 not in the 1900's. a token glance at statistics would show that in this day and age, the risks associated with pregnancy and birth are practically nil.

risks associated with abortion: if these are carried out in a proper hospital by a qualified doctor, again there are hardly any risks to the mother. of course to the unborn child certain death awaits.

however what bothers me most about your question is that in asking, you are "demoting" motherhood to a 40 week gestation period, followed by delivery of a newborn.

as a mother i can honestly say that pregnancy is merely an initiation period into what could develop into the most wonderful relationship a person could have with another person during one's lifetime. to me there is no other bond like that which exists between a mother and her child/ren

[Marco Polo]

Just one simple question: Who has to take the risk of pregnancy and finally giving birth? Or abortion respectively?

Yes, we know it's the woman. So men can't have an opinion?

I am truly sorry for meddling in purely female affairs. I forgot that all men do is give sperm!

[Marco Polo]

well said etoile!

How about a loving father sharing in this scenario, or are all men demonic beasts and no gooders?

Many men and women lost the plot big time regarding children. They should be our number one priority.

[etoile noir]

well said etoile!

How about a loving father sharing in this scenario, or are all men demonic beasts and no gooders?

Many men and women lost the plot big time regarding children. They should be our number one priority.

i am not saying that the same relationship a mother shares with her children cannot be experiened by a father. of course it is. they are both parents.

maybe i should have re-phrased it to read "the bond that exists between parents and children", however EuroHybrid made it patently obvious that she was referring to women when she asked "who takes the risks in pregnancy ..." - i've never seen a pregnant man!

it is for this reason that i limited my reply to the bond between mother and child. however apologies to all the fathers and the men here. i know that fathers can develop deep and caring relationships with their children as much as mothers can.

ultimately it all depends on the individual. i've known mothers who give birth to countless children and move on without a second thought, and mothers who are totally dedicated to their children. likewise with men. some are dedicated to their children and care for them throughout their lives, whilst others "spread their seed" and dont even hang around long enough to see the fruits of their not-too-hard labour - pun intended!

[EuropeanHybrid]

[QUOTE=etoile noir]
ultimately it all depends on the individual.

Exactly

[Marco Polo]

Thankyou, thankyou, thankyou.

I acknowledge that it is pure nature that generally the mother is the one who bonds more with a child, but i am sick and tired of women making out that they are 'the only ones who suffer', 'the only ones who care' etc. It is total rubbish!

In my opinion men do have a right to an opinion on child matters and this petty squabbling on issues that effect BOTH partners needs to stop.

If my (possible future) wife were to become pregnant I would have no right to an opinion on the matter?

[Marco Polo]

Just one simple question: Who has to take the risk of pregnancy and finally giving birth? Or abortion respectively?

so whats with the arrogant feminazi attitude then?

[etoile noir]

so whats with the arrogant feminazi attitude then?

hey! hands off her. we need women around here and i happen to like eurohybrid even if i dont agree with everything she says

[Marco Polo]

does she need a guard dog?

Im sick of female arrogance and selfishness. What happened to the loving husband and father?? Both him, the independent woman and their children can live as one.

[Marco Polo]

im not angry with eurohybrid, but do you really believe that such a hostile attitude towards men is needed?

[Artist]

"the child comes into existence in and through the woman"

through the woman yes, but not from the woman. A child is a person unto him/herself. you might find this interesting, it's by K Gibran:

Your children are not your children.

They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.

They come through you but not from you,

And though they are with you, yet they belong not to you.

You may give them your love but not your thoughts.

For they have their own thoughts.

You may house their bodies but not their souls,

For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.

You may strive to be like them, but seek not to make them like you.

For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.



EN, can the foetus survive without the mother?
I believe that only the mother has the right to decide if to abort or not.
When we have a situation when the health of the mother is in danger an abortion is justified.
This is not killing in your opinion?
In this case the rights of the mother are considered prior to that of the foetus.
Why not always?
Is not the same when there is a fanacial problem?
I'm not going to mention the other two cases in which I consider that abortion is justified.

[etoile noir]

EN, can the foetus survive without the mother?

would the foetus even exist if there was no "father" to start with?

And no, the foetus cannot survive without the mother in the 1st and 2nd semesters of the pregnancy. after 20 weeks gestation, the chances of survival in an incubator are high.

I believe that only the mother has the right to decide if to abort or not.
When we have a situation when the health of the mother is in danger an abortion is justified. This is not killing in your opinion?

yes, in these extreme cases, where one has to choose between the life of the mother or that of the foetus, i agree that the mother's life has more importance and thus the foetus would have to die.

In this case the rights of the mother are considered prior to that of the foetus. Why not always?

because man, or in this case woman, is a selfish creature. she has at her disposal all methods of contraception. she can even abstain from sex if she has no contraception available! surely one can survive without copulation. or are we suggesting the mentality of "dont worry, if i get pregnant i'll get rid of it". no Artist, that is a supremely selfish act that i cannot tolerate.

Is not the same when there is a fanacial problem?

are finances so bleak that the man and woman in question can't afford to buy a condom? or the contraceptive pill? or were they careless in the first place and now think - what shall we choose? a holiday in the maldives every year or a child?

I'm not going to mention the other two cases in which I consider that abortion is justified.

you, like myself, are entitled to your opinion.

[Artist]

Thank you EN, I'm quite satisfied with your answers.