Catholics, I.E. and Immigration

[iddrugo]

wasn't intended to impress. Just stating that some don't follow silly rules, It's just ridiculous. Jesus makes the ultimate sacrifice with his life and what do we do? We quit meat for a day!

Anyone have any idea where the silly tradition comes from?


This should answer your question:

For Roman Catholics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholicism), fasting is reduction of one's intake of food to one full meal (which may contain meat) and two small meals (known liturgically as collations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collation_%28meal%29), taken in the morning and the evening), required of the faithful on specified days. It differs from abstinence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstinence) which was the complete avoidance of meat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meat) on Fridays, especially during Lent (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lent).

Ash Wednesday (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ash_Wednesday) and Good Friday (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Friday) are still days of fasting and abstinence, as specified in the Code of Canon Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_law) (cc. 1250 to 1253). On these two solemn days Roman Catholics are enjoined to both fast (reduce the size of their daily meals) and to abstain (to completely avoid the consumption of meat in those meals).

The current regulations concerning Lenten fasting and abstinence for Catholics in the United States generally are as follows,


Abstinence from meats is to be observed by all Catholics 14 years old and older on Ash Wednesday and on all Fridays of Lent.
Fasting is to be observed on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday by all Catholics who are 18 years of age but not yet 59. Those who are bound by this may take only one full meal. Two smaller meals are permitted if necessary to maintain strength according to one’s needs, but eating solid foods between meals is not permitted.
For Catholics whose health or ability to work would be negatively affected by fasting and/or abstinence, the regulations above don't apply.

At one time Ash Wednesday and all the subsequent Fridays and Saturdays of Lent were days of "Fasting and Abstinence" whereas all the other weekdays of Lent were days of "Fasting without Abstinence". An exception to this rule was granted to the Bishops of Ireland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ireland) (see Irish calendar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_calendar)) by the Vatican (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_See) in 1918 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1918), when the obligation of fasting and abstaining on the Lenten Saturdays was transferred to the Wednesdays of Lent instead.

Immediately before the Second Vatican Council (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Vatican_Council) limited fasting to Ash Wednesday (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ash_Wednesday) and Good Friday (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Friday), fasting days included all of the weekdays (i.e., non-Sundays) of Lent (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lent), all Ember days (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ember_days), and the vigils of (days before) Pentecost (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentecost), Immaculate Conception (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immaculate_Conception), and Christmas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas), unless either of the latter two fell on a Sunday (regardless of other circumstances, a Sunday could never be a day of fast or abstinence). Abstinence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstinence) was required on all Fridays, except those upon which a holy day of obligation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_day_of_obligation) fell, and also on Ash Wednesday (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ash_Wednesday), Holy Saturday (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Saturday), and the vigils of Immaculate Conception (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immaculate_Conception) and Christmas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas) unless the latter two were Sundays. Prior to 1951 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1951), all Wednesdays of Lent and the vigils of Assumption (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assumption_of_Mary) and All Saints (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_Saints) (unless Sunday) were also days of both fasting and abstinence (but the vigil of Immaculate Conception (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immaculate_Conception) was not), and Ember days (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ember_days) brought abstinence as well as fasting (the fast on the vigil of Pentecost (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentecost) was added in 1951, not having been in force prior).

In recent years, Saint Patrick (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Patrick)'s Day has at times fallen on a Friday of Lent. Some Priests have granted dispensations for their parishioners from the abstinence obligations so that Catholics could enjoy traditional Irish dishes.



SOURCE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasting#Roman_Catholicism

[Angelfish]

wasn't intended to impress. Just stating that some don't follow silly rules, It's just ridiculous. Jesus makes the ultimate sacrifice with his life and what do we do? We quit meat for a day!

Anyone have any idea where the silly tradition comes from?

wot a silly comment.

[Florian Geyer]

like anyone listens to the stupid dogma!

If I wasn't veggie i'd have a meat feast today. I already did my part in the sweets department.

You kill me you do.I just had to pick myself up of the floor.:D

[umberto]

wot a silly comment.

agree..............................

[Angelfish]

It's to do with hundreds of years of local tradition and customs and some modicum of basic good manners ,even if one is not a believer.
Same as not eating pork or pork products when dining with muslims even in an infidel country or reducing one's work schedule on Friday in a muslim country or sundays in a Christian country!
"Viva Malta" indeed! And then kick the local customs and traditions and boasting of doing it with relish as well!

[umberto]

A BBQ by IE in Good Friday, was lack of respect for its Catholic supporters. It is a clear signal that it does not want them. So far so good.

[etoile noir]

the notion that during a BBQ, one must eat meat is totally wrong. if that were the case, then i would never attend any BBQ. not the lovely summery ones on the beach, not the IE ones .... none at all!

the way IE BBQ's work is simple. you bring with you what you intend on eating. If you would like a huge chunky steak, then bring it along. surely you don't expect to find a butcher selling meat at the "sacred spot"!!

if all you want are some sandwiches and a cuppa tea, bring some sandwiches and a flask. if you want wine, you bring your own ...... you eat what you bring with you. naturally this is a social event, therefore offering a cuppa, or a glass of wine to your friends is the norm.

many times i've sat through BBQ's and all i've had was a bottle of mineral water, and a packet of rice cakes - most times in fact! i'm not a meat eater, and i go for the company not the food.

no, i do not agree with marco polo describing as "silly" customs that my mother, grandparents, and ancestors have held dear for centuries. maybe the fact that he is not a "local" would excuse this for i doubt they have our traditions in england. however that would be excusing him, and i do not want to excuse him.

in fact i would like to thank iddrugo for supplying that post, together with the links provided. since marco polo asked, maybe he should be the first to read it and learn - and think twice before calling any local custom silly!

[Florian Geyer]

A BBQ by IE in Good Friday, was lack of respect for its Catholic supporters. It is a clear signal that it does not want them. So far so good.

I wouldn't say that and I dont think there was any bad intentions.Maybe were being too serious here.Dont they plan these things in advance?;)

[Freedom]

How can catholics be part of IE?

[PERICLES]

How can catholics be part of IE?

Hmm.....actually the Church in the past was MORE racist than IE. Up till a few decades ago the Church did not consider black people as having a soul..

[PERICLES]

and then they end up doing useless apologies:

http://www.highbeam.com/library/doc0.asp?docid=1P1:36507819&refid=ink_tptd_np&skeyword=&teaser=

[Florian Geyer]

How can catholics be part of IE?

I thought that most people in Viva malta were catholics.I myself was born into the catholic faith and I for myself do not see a problem nor feel there is a problem.After all ,to me it's all in the mind anyhow.

Has anyone from IE mentioned that catholics are barred or anything kie that,I dont think so.Check the thread by Praefectus...."Are there any catholics in IE".:)

[malsey]

Nahseb qeghdin thaltu il hass mall bass xi whud. Kif qalet tajjeb etoile il bbq hadd ma jigi obblikat jiekol. filfatt hafna nies ma jieklu xejn( ibda minni ghax normalment is soltu mmur xi 8.30 wara il privat u li nkun kilt id dar)

ezempju l bierah hadt cold pasta bit tuna ghax dak kelli aptit. Hu ovvju li kattolici jistaw ikunu ma ie. wara kollox l ebda kristjan go malta ma hu 100% kristjan. issa hemm whud ateisti so what?? kristu qal li minn hu atewu ghanda noqtluh jew inwarbuh???

[Canadian Charlie]

Thats the church of Brazil speaking, what has the church of Malta have to say?

[malsey]

The only difference from other catholics can be that at IE they say they do not agree on some things with the church. Others say they agree although they do the opposite. :(
I thought that most people in Viva malta were catholics.I myself was born into the catholic faith and I for myself do not see a problem nor feel there is a problem.After all ,to me it's all in the mind anyhow.

Has anyone from IE mentioned that catholics are barred or anything kie that,I dont think so.Check the thread by Praefectus...."Are there any catholics in IE".:)

[PERICLES]

Thats the church of Brazil speaking, what has the church of Malta have to say?

The Church in Malta is more reluctant when it comes to making apologies. I have not heard anyone from the Curia making an apology for the CENTURIES OF IGNORANCE that the Catholic Church kept us into. :mad:

[IMPERIUM]

A BBQ by IE in Good Friday, was lack of respect for its Catholic supporters. It is a clear signal that it does not want them. So far so good.

We hold our BBQs on the Friday nearest to the full moon.
Come what may: Christmas or New Year or what not.
We don't care!

To us Cosmotheists:
to be at one with Nature:
is Sacred.

Infinitely more Sacred:
then any vari tal kartapesta u bandalori.
We revere Mother Nature.

At Dwejra, under a full Moon, we look around us:
in awe at the beauty of our Sacred Island.
We realize how privileged we are to live here.

Eating, drinking, gossiping:
surrounded by an aura of purity and calm:
feeling the humus.

Once monthly we cleanse ourselves:
we renew the bond:
between ourselves and our Sacred Island.

Imperium
0503

[Florian Geyer]

How can catholics be part of IE?

Just found the thread. Theology forum."Catholics"

[Angelfish]

Hmm.....actually the Church in the past was MORE racist than IE. Up till a few decades ago the Church did not consider black people as having a soul..

The church has excused herself for a lot of things it has done over the centuries, if I am not mistaken. And so has the local church.
Other creeds have not now, have they ?

[Admin]

Issa we will meet for the next one:D

Looking forward to. :D

[malsey]

Well said Norman. In fact even in December it happened to be boxing day. Apart from that we stayed at Dwejra in calm and nice atmosphere discussing as we normally do. We are not the type that we go to church and as soon we are out we stay chatting against other people and how we will ripe them off.



We hold our BBQs on the Friday nearest to the full moon.
Come what may: Christmas or New Year or what not.
We don't care!

To us Cosmotheists:
to be at one with Nature:
is Sacred.

Infinitely more Sacred:
then any vari tal kartapesta u bandalori.
We revere Mother Nature.

At Dwejra, under a full Moon, we look around us:
in awe at the beauty of our Sacred Island.
We realize how privileged we are to live here.

Eating, drinking, gossiping:
surrounded by an aura of purity and calm:
feeling the humus.

Once monthly we cleanse ourselves:
we renew the bond:
between ourselves and our Sacred Island.

Imperium
0503

[Florian Geyer]

The church has excused herself for a lot of things it has done over the centuries, if I am not mistaken. And so has the local church.
Other creeds have not now, have they ?
You didn't start on "other creeds," You were on about catholics.

[Angelfish]

How can catholics be part of IE?

Dunno!
Have you any idea?
Not everyone using this forum is a member of IE , or am I mistaken?
Are you a member of IE/catholic or both?

[malsey]

Well the church was friends with Adolf Hitler because they wanted the communism to end. The church had done/is doing a lot of mistakes. Then after centuries they say they are sorry.


The church has excused herself for a lot of things it has done over the centuries, if I am not mistaken. And so has the local church.
Other creeds have not now, have they ?

[PERICLES]

The church has excused herself for a lot of things it has done over the centuries, if I am not mistaken. And so has the local church.
Other creeds have not now, have they ?

When???

As for the other creeds, TWO WRONGS NEVER MAKE ONE RIGHT.

[Admin]

Haw, haw ... but, that's no excuse! You can work remotely! Good Symbian phone, SSH/Telnet client, GPRS/EDGE connection -- you're rebooting and tuning in no time! :-)

Occasionally I've done that, Praefectus, but connecting remotely through gprs is so slow as to be almost useless for real work. Besides I do not only work on unix boxes, but also on Windows, and I assure you that vnc over gprs is enough to make the strongest weep. I would have ended up grilling the phone instead of the meat.

[Angelfish]

We hold our BBQs on the Friday nearest to the full moon.
Come what may: Christmas or New Year or what not.
We don't care!

To us Cosmotheists:
to be at one with Nature:
is Sacred.

Infinitely more Sacred:
then any vari tal kartapesta u bandalori.
We revere Mother Nature.

At Dwejra, under a full Moon, we look around us:
in awe at the beauty of our Sacred Island.
We realize how privileged we are to live here.

Eating, drinking, gossiping:
surrounded by an aura of purity and calm:
feeling the humus.

Once monthly we cleanse ourselves:
we renew the bond:
between ourselves and our Sacred Island.

Imperium
0503

erm...but was'nt the weather in such an open space, a bit of a deterrant when , erm communicating with mother nature under a full moon, in the way it is meant to be?
:):):)

[Angelfish]

When???

As for the other creeds, TWO WRONGS NEVER MAKE ONE RIGHT.

What two wrongs and one right are you referring to please. You quite lost me in this I'm afraid.

[PERICLES]

What two wrongs and one right are you referring to please. You quite lost me in this I'm afraid.

If the other creeds did not make apologies it doesn't mean the Catholic Church can do the same.

[Angelfish]

But the point is that the catholic church did make an apology after all ,did it? Is it to be criticised now for making that apology as well?

:confused:

[Florian Geyer]

If the other creeds did not make apologies it doesn't mean the Catholic Church can do the same.

Wouldn't mind going to one of these barbs,but i'm a purist.I dont like to eat and drink at the same venue,Drinking in pubs and eating....... is for WIMPS.

Gladly go to a boozing session where all the spirits will be out, maybe a few holy ones as well.:)

[PERICLES]

But the point is that the catholic church did make an apology after all ,did it? Is it to be criticised now for making that apology as well?

:confused:

On what did it make an apology? I'm referring to the Curia not the Vatican. Correct me if I'm wrong however I think that the local Church did only ONE apology (as regards the 1960s indecent behaviour by the Church). There are much more apologies the the local Catholic Church should do and saying that other creeds did not make any apologies is not an excuse for not making them. Get my point?

[malsey]

of course if you want to do an apology do it meta il ftira tkun ghada shuna.

e.g the church will surely say it was wrong regards the condoms issue. However they will sy they were wrong probaly in a hundred years when our generation will be all dead. ;)


But the point is that the catholic church did make an apology after all ,did it? Is it to be criticised now for making that apology as well?

:confused:

[malsey]

I mention just one

Our arcisqof mercieca il kazi tal pedofolija ta dar san guzepp rrid il media taghlaq halqa. Dak hu kontra il ligi t alla fl opinjoni tieghi. u l iktar tkun taf li ilghom issiru snin u ma tiftahx halqek. u hawn mhux l isqof biss haqqu kundanna imma anka xi ngos li jmorru jippuppaw sidirhom kemm lowell u razzist.


On what did it make an apology? I'm referring to the Curia not the Vatican. Correct me if I'm wrong however I think that the local Church did only ONE apology (as regards the 1960s indecent behaviour by the Church). There are much more apologies the the local Catholic Church should do and saying that other creeds did not make any apologies is not an excuse for not making them. Get my point?

[PERICLES]

Numru ta' apologiji li nixtieq minghand il-Kurja:

1) Ghal mod kif certu qassinin dahqu b'nies li jkunu fuq is-sodda tal-mewt u jghidulhom li jekk ihallu gidhom lil Knisja jmorru l-genna.....illum il-gurnata dan insejhulu FRODI.

2) Apologija ghal l-inkwizizjoni li kien hawn f'Malta. Il-Vatikan ghamel apologija. Il-"branch lokali" tal-Vatikan missha taghmel wahda wkoll.

3) Apologija ghal mod kif ghal sekli SHAH il-Knisja hadet monopolju tas-sistema edukattiva ta' pajjizna bies l'elite BISS ikollhom edukazzjoni. Apparti minnhekk ghandha ssir apologija talli meta bdew jinfethu l-iskejjel pubblici hafna KAPPILLANI u ARCIPRIETI bdew jghidu lil genituri bies ma jibghtux lit-tfal taghhom l-iskola ghax ikunu qeghdin jibghatuhom l-infern.

4) Apologija ghal mod li bih il-Knisja Maltija saret SKJAVA tal-flus.

Dawn huma biss ftit mill-apologiji li l-knisja Maltija missha taghmel.

[malsey]

Stenna 500 sena ohra u forsi jitolbu skuza:D



Numru ta' apologiji li nixtieq minghand il-Kurja:

1) Ghal mod kif certu qassinin dahqu b'nies li jkunu fuq is-sodda tal-mewt u jghidulhom li jekk ihallu gidhom lil Knisja jmorru l-genna.....illum il-gurnata dan insejhulu FRODI.

2) Apologija ghal l-inkwizizjoni li kien hawn f'Malta. Il-Vatikan ghamel apologija. Il-"branch lokali" tal-Vatikan missha taghmel wahda wkoll.

3) Apologija ghal mod kif ghal sekli SHAH il-Knisja hadet monopolju tas-sistema edukattiva ta' pajjizna bies l'elite BISS ikollhom edukazzjoni. Apparti minnhekk ghandha ssir apologija talli meta bdew jinfethu l-iskejjel pubblici hafna KAPPILLANI u ARCIPRIETI bdew jghidu lil genituri bies ma jibghtux lit-tfal taghhom l-iskola ghax ikunu qeghdin jibghatuhom l-infern.

4) Apologija ghal mod li bih il-Knisja Maltija saret SKJAVA tal-flus.

Dawn huma biss ftit mill-apologiji li l-knisja Maltija missha taghmel.

[destrasinister]

transposing the discussion into a discourse on the merits and demerits of the ecclesiastical class does not detract from the underlying theme of the thread which seeks to elevate the debate from whether it is nature that we seek to interact with or a higher being. showing obeisance to the full moon may at a lower end of consciousness appear to be a primitive form of expression that sits uncomfortably with the notion that we seek to inculcate in ourselves a seeking after the satisfaction that comes from high politics. however on closer and more subtle examination of the theories proposed as to why the full moon is important to our beliefs it becomes clear that eschewing materialism through the symbolism of nocturnal sublimation to the moon's phases acts in concert with the position of women in the movement, also used in the extensive writings on the subject to demonstrate the eternal dichotomy between what is and what we believe should be and will be when the imperium dawns

[PERICLES]

Stenna 500 sena ohra u forsi jitolbu skuza:D

Naf. Hija tattika tal-Knisja li tistenna sekli qabel ma taghmel apologija. B'hekk "tinhass" inqas.

[Florian Geyer]

Now you've started something.

[Arkon]

Numru ta' apologiji li nixtieq minghand il-Kurja:

1) Ghal mod kif certu qassinin dahqu b'nies li jkunu fuq is-sodda tal-mewt u jghidulhom li jekk ihallu gidhom lil Knisja jmorru l-genna.....illum il-gurnata dan insejhulu FRODI.

2) Apologija ghal l-inkwizizjoni li kien hawn f'Malta. Il-Vatikan ghamel apologija. Il-"branch lokali" tal-Vatikan missha taghmel wahda wkoll.

3) Apologija ghal mod kif ghal sekli SHAH il-Knisja hadet monopolju tas-sistema edukattiva ta' pajjizna bies l'elite BISS ikollhom edukazzjoni. Apparti minnhekk ghandha ssir apologija talli meta bdew jinfethu l-iskejjel pubblici hafna KAPPILLANI u ARCIPRIETI bdew jghidu lil genituri bies ma jibghtux lit-tfal taghhom l-iskola ghax ikunu qeghdin jibghatuhom l-infern.

4) Apologija ghal mod li bih il-Knisja Maltija saret SKJAVA tal-flus.

Dawn huma biss ftit mill-apologiji li l-knisja Maltija missha taghmel.


I don't know why you keep on insisting on bashing the Catholic Church!!!

The Catholic Church is long out of the picture...its not the sixties anymore....
You're just flogging a dead horse. You (I don't mean particularly you, Peracles), are better off attacking real enemies, that really pose a threat to our culture, our nation and our race.

When you attack the church I imagine its the seventies all over again , with Mintoff raving mad and bearing that chip he had on his shoulder. He also used to attack the church at every opportunity.

IS THIS A SOCIALIST FORUM OR WHAT?


And this thing with apologies...are you insisting on an official apology from the church for the mistakes of the past? What is it going to get you? Your pound of flesh? Only Jews insist on that, like Shylock did in that famous play...


You're puting the cart before the horse in my opinion. Get focused on the real PRESENT DAY issues!!!! That's where the beef is (pardon the pun).

[Admin]

Isimhu nies li ssejhu lilkhom infuskom kattolici. Inthom qieghdin tattakkaw lil min mar il-bbq ghaliex ma segwiex it-tradizzjonijiet li ssegwu inthom - pero malajr tohorgu titkazaw ghaliex il-musulmani ma jridux talb kristjan u kurcifissi fl-iskejjel fejn imorru t-tfal taghhom. Jew ha timxu b'one weight and one measure, jew inkella tkunu qieghdin timxu ta' ipokriti. Fid-dinja kulhadd liberu li jghamel li jrid u li jghogbu, sakemm ma jxekkilx il-liberta' ta' haddiehor.
Billi hemm nies li ghazlu li jmorru bbq minflok li jimxu ma tradizzjoni li ma jaqblux maghha, b'l-ebda mod ma nehhitilkhom mil-liberta' taghkhom li toqghodu ssumu, u ghalhekk m'ghandkom l-ebda dritt timponu it-tradizzjonijiet taghhom fuq min ma jinteressawhx!

[malsey]

the church is the number 1 enemy regards illegal immigrantion. Who is daily during messes, ANKA HAMIS IX XIRKA, jitolbu ghall imiggranti ha nghinhom hawn go art twelidna. il knisja hi komplici ma certu ministri u membri fl oppozijoni fit tkissir ta malta.

Kif qal tajjeb hafna pericles, xoghol il knisja u dejjem li zomm il poplu injurant halli jweduh il genna jekk thalli il flus wara li tmut u possibilment anka meta tkun haj. iktar immigranti iktar ahjar ghax il gvern jaghtijhom flat, u imbad il knisja tghid lil immigranti ihalluh il knisja la jmutu ha jmorru il genna.
mall bojod u maltin dak ma jistawx jaghmluh iktar ghax il poplu tghallem wara li qasmuh fi tnejn.

minn jista jichad il korruzjoni tal knisja?


Min irrid jemmen fil knisja ghandu dritt bil qalb kollha, ghax dik decizjoni personali tieghu.

[destrasinister]

the courage shown in attacking the predominant religion of the sacred isles is expressive of the disregard shown by the diamond hard inner core when the ideas they espouse come up against the immutable theories that are seen as paramount by the unconscious. the method of attack is reminiscent of the way Hammurabi strode peerless over the alps when diocletian dared oppose him

[PERICLES]

I don't know why you keep on insisting on bashing the Catholic Church!!!

The Catholic Church is long out of the picture...its not the sixties anymore....
You're just flogging a dead horse. You (I don't mean particularly you, Peracles), are better off attacking real enemies, that really pose a threat to our culture, our nation and our race.

When you attack the church I imagine its the seventies all over again , with Mintoff raving mad and bearing that chip he had on his shoulder. He also used to attack the church at every opportunity.

IS THIS A SOCIALIST FORUM OR WHAT?


And this thing with apologies...are you insisting on an official apology from the church for the mistakes of the past? What is it going to get you? Your pound of flesh? Only Jews insist on that, like Shylock did in that famous play...


You're puting the cart before the horse in my opinion. Get focused on the real PRESENT DAY issues!!!! That's where the beef is (pardon the pun).

I want the Church to ACCEPT ITS RESPONSABILITIES Arkon. That's all I want. I'm definitely not saying that we should renegade the Church's influence on our country however that's not an excuse for the Church to avoid accepting its reponsabilities.

This is NOT a Socialist forum. However its NOT a DEMOCHRISTIAN one either.

[Arkon]

I want the Church to ACCEPT ITS RESPONSABILITIES Arkon. That's all I want. I'm definitely not saying that we should renegade the Church's influence on our country however that's not an excuse for the Church to avoid accepting its reponsabilities.

This is NOT a Socialist forum. However its NOT a DEMOCHRISTIAN one either.

I am not a christian democrat nor a socialist, that's why I come here.

I don't expect to hear communist/liberal rantings when I visit. It is obviously your right to do so. But what is going to separate you from the Graffiti Movements of this world? They also go on and on about the church. And so do practically all the 'squallid' socialists.

Sincerely, I expect something original from a forum of the intellectual radical racialist right.http://www.vivamalta.org/images/icons/icon7.gif

[PERICLES]

I am not a christian democrat nor a socialist, that's why I come here.

I don't expect to hear communist/liberal rantings when I visit. It is obviously your right to do so. But what is going to separate you from the Graffiti Movements of this world? They also go on and on about the church. And so do practically all the 'squallid' socialists.

Sincerely, I expect something original from a forum of the intellectual radical racialist right.http://www.vivamalta.org/images/icons/icon7.gif

May I remind you that this is a PUBLIC FORUM. In fact if you didn't notice there are already 2 members of the Graffiti Movement writing on this site. I rarely agree with them on an issue however its thier right to do so. Actually they are encouraged to keep on reading and posting on this site (forsi jitghallmu xi haga ;) )

Now as regards the criticism on the Church. I do critcise the Church for its past mistakes and will keep on doing so. HOWEVER that doesn't mean that I'm encouraging athiesm (unlike OTHER movements which you mentioned). Only blind people will associate me with the Graffiti movement. :)


Moderators note: This forum is not affiliated to the MLPNAD club.

[malsey]

To add with Gauci said i believe in freedom of expression. Myself know a couple of guys of graffitti, although we always fight on political believes. However I still feel they can contribute as well.

This is not an MLPNAD forum, and its also not a forum of Azzjoni Kattolika.

There are people whom I know and are Cristians and i respect them and vice versa. there are also athiesm who are my friends, and respect is one of my principle which i believe is a principle of life and not of a particular religion.

What i can see about religions is that for years they fought wars and killed millions. Probably also 3 world war will start again muslims vs cristians

[Arkon]

May I remind you that this is a PUBLIC FORUM. In fact if you didn't notice there are already 2 members of the Graffiti Movement writing on this site. I rarely agree with them on an issue however its thier right to do so. Actually they are encouraged to keep on reading and posting on this site (forsi jitghallmu xi haga ;) )

Now as regards the criticism on the Church. I do critcise the Church for its past mistakes and will keep on doing so. HOWEVER that doesn't mean that I'm encouraging athiesm (unlike OTHER movements which you mentioned). Only blind people will associate me with the Graffiti movement. :)


Moderators note: This forum is not affiliated to the MLPNAD club.

Most of the guys behind Graffiti (and there aren't many of them) still think its fashionable to embrace extreme left wing ideas. They will mature in time, I'm not worried about them.

But I would honestly be very concerned when this valid right wing movement, the ideology of tomorrow, gets bogged down with antiquated ideas and issues of the past. Its like building monuments to martyrs of the past in the middle of a highway, if you know what I mean.

Let bygones be bygones and let's get on with life and the task at hand.

Don't waste your energies on cadavers, use your ammunition on real targets.

[argo]

Criticising the Church does not necessarily imply leftist tendencies. On the contrary. The way things have developed, it is church organisations like the JRS that have extreme left leanings. All this crap about equality of everything except Maltese pork and potatoes is being forcefed to the public by all means possible. The church is the prime culprit in this.

This false concept of everyone being equal is destroying civilisation. It is the ultimate disincentive for that extra effort needed to excel in some particular field and contribute to the growth of the nation.

The Knisja Kattolika Korotta Kommunista Klandestina is the public enemy No.1.

Regarding the original purpose of this thread, namely the BBQ. I find it patronising for the church to impose on its fidili what to eat and when. Smacks of Ayatollah Khomeni when he used to tell Iranians not to go swimming during Ramadan lest they accidentally swallow sea water and break their fast.

I find the ways of the Catholic church rather irrational. What sense can one make out of the gesture made by the pope in which he 'offered his suffering to God' How utterly and revoltingly sick. I would have thought that one would offer something positive and pleasant not misery and sickness. Don't misunderstand me, I sympathise with any person suffering like the pope is doing. Unfortunately that is life and it will not be religion that will find ways to alleviate such suffering but science and medicine.

[Arkon]

Criticising the Church does not necessarily imply leftist tendencies. On the contrary. The way things have developed, it is church organisations like the JRS that have extreme left leanings. All this crap about equality of everything except Maltese pork and potatoes is being forcefed to the public by all means possible. The church is the prime culprit in this.

This false concept of everyone being equal is destroying civilisation. It is the ultimate disincentive for that extra effort needed to excel in some particular field and contribute to the growth of the nation.

The Knisja Kattolika Korotta Kommunista Klandestina is the public enemy No.1.

Regarding the original purpose of this thread, namely the BBQ. I find it patronising for the church to impose on its fidili what to eat and when. Smacks of Ayatollah Khomeni when he used to tell Iranians not to go swimming during Ramadan lest they accidentally swallow sea water and break their fast.

I find the ways of the Catholic church rather irrational. What sense can one make out of the gesture made by the pope in which he 'offered his suffering to God' How utterly and revoltingly sick. I would have thought that one would offer something positive and pleasant not misery and sickness. Don't misunderstand me, I sympathise with any person suffering like the pope is doing. Unfortunately that is life and it will not be religion that will find ways to alleviate such suffering but science and medicine.

I am neither pro-church not anti. I think politics have come out of the church's circle of influence this side of the world quite some time ago. The church does not tell politicians what to do. The illegals problem is still around because our politicians have been taken ill by 'the politically correctness' virus. If and when a government decides to do away with that problem, a hundred thousand jesuits won't stop it.

Let's stay in focus and not waste time on defunct, sterile and old wars. They have been won (and lost) a long time ago

[umberto]

Ah ok, the BBQ is associated with the Friday full moon. I got it all wrong then, an anti-Christian BBQ crossed my mind and a message to Catholic supporters.
My comment was only to that extent.
This is a free country of course, thank God and everyone can eat what he likes when he want. Ci mancerebbe altro. The coincidence of other customs escaped me. My mistake.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

The local church is made up of all kind of priests, left leaning, right leaning humanitarians etc...... The official mouth and action of the church is the Curia, which could have succumbed to pressure to fill our village centres with illegals.
It only speaks in the issue when pressured too. It surely cannot forget the self-preservation (not an un-Christian thing if one do not want to misguide) of its local flock.

Its not the first time I criticised clerics for there unreasoning humanitarism. But the continous criticising of the church is unwarranted for. As if it is the only blame for everything. Past is past.

[umberto]

I agree with arkon 100%.

[Revolutionary]

The illegals problem is still around because our politicians have been taken ill by 'the politically correctness' virus. If and when a government decides to do away with that problem, a hundred thousand jesuits won't stop it.

Let's stay in focus and not waste time on defunct, sterile and old wars. They have been won (and lost) a long time ago

Well said! Attacking the Church is useless and unproductive. The immigration problem is in the government's hands.

[PERICLES]

Well said! Attacking the Church is useless and unproductive. The immigration problem is in the government's hands.

But WE are not only concerned with the immigration problem. It seems that some of you want IE to become a one issue party.

[umberto]

No one expects that.

[PERICLES]

Most of the guys behind Graffiti (and there aren't many of them) still think its fashionable to embrace extreme left wing ideas. They will mature in time, I'm not worried about them.

But I would honestly be very concerned when this valid right wing movement, the ideology of tomorrow, gets bogged down with antiquated ideas and issues of the past. Its like building monuments to martyrs of the past in the middle of a highway, if you know what I mean.

Let bygones be bygones and let's get on with life and the task at hand.

Don't waste your energies on cadavers, use your ammunition on real targets.

Ignoring the past is definitely counter productive. Apart from that may I remind you that demanding some apologies from the Kurja is JUSTIFIED and definitely not energy-consuming.

[PERICLES]

No one expects that.

Revolutionary gave me that impression :rolleyes:

[Admin]

I am neither pro-church not anti. I think politics have come out of the church's circle of influence this side of the world quite some time ago. The church does not tell politicians what to do. The illegals problem is still around because our politicians have been taken ill by 'the politically correctness' virus. If and when a government decides to do away with that problem, a hundred thousand jesuits won't stop it.

Let's stay in focus and not waste time on defunct, sterile and old wars. They have been won (and lost) a long time ago

I don't agree fully with you Arkon. While the influence of the church is certainly much diminished from a few decades ago, its influence must not be underestimated. It is simply subtler and more difficult to unmask, but it is still unmistakably there. This is still a catholic country after all and Gonzi, jekk il-banbin irid, is still his uncle's nephew.

[Canadian Charlie]

Well said! Attacking the Church is useless and unproductive. The immigration problem is in the government's hands.

Yes the immigration problem is in the hands of the Government, but who REALLY runs the government, who influences it? The answer to that my friends is the church.

Yes the church, the true Maltese mafia (the black hand). Why are we dennied so many things? Because the church says no and it has the final vote on the country.

The church wants the klondistini here even though the Government knows they are losing money because of them

[Revolutionary]

Revolutionary gave me that impression :rolleyes:

I was quoting a reply on the immigration issue. I'm sorry that you got the wrong impression.

[umberto]

It is still a catholic country and its going to remain one, if one wants to work in a realistic environment.

Moreover, had it not been for 'Crusaders' in Europe, instead of criticising a Christian institution, we are probably criticising a muslim one. If allowed at all.

If the PM is much allegedly influenced by the church, a bad thing to do, blame him. We had past leaders who were not.

[Admin]

It is still a catholic country and its going to remain one, if one wants to work in a realistic environment.

Moreover, had it not been for 'Crusaders' in Europe, instead of criticising a Christian institution, we are probably criticising a muslim one. If allowed at all.

If the PM is much allegedly influenced by the church, a bad thing to do, blame him. We had past leaders who were not.
I think that the church during the times of the knights had different views and different priorities than the church of today. While, as you say, the church was instrumental in stemming the islamic tide at those times, today it is at the forefront of opening the dams and flooding Europe with muslims.
My comment about Gonzi was not meant as a jugement as to whether his being so obviously influenced by the church were positive or negative. It was simply meant to point out the fact itself, i.e. that he is in fact influenced by the church, to the contrary of what other people, including yourself were saying.

[PERICLES]

My comment about Gonzi was not meant as a jugement as to whether his being so obviously influenced by the church were positive or negative. It was simply meant to point out the fact itself, i.e. that he is in fact influenced by the church, to the contrary of what other people, including yourself were saying.

The important thing is that he does not get influenced by the Church when he takes political decisions.

[Canadian Charlie]

The important thing is that he does not get influenced by the Church when he takes political decisions.


TOO LATE FOR THAT

[umberto]

Every catholic is somewhat influenced by the church.

The position of the prime minister is different as he has to consider the national interest first and foremost. In three years time, we will probably have a PM which cannot be said to be a Catholic. We will see how he will act re. some issues. God Forbid if it is the spanish type socialism.

[Admin]

Every catholic is somewhat influenced by the church.

The position of the prime minister is different as he has to consider the national interest first and foremost. In three years time, we will probably have a PM which cannot be said to be a Catholic. We will see how he will act re. some issues. God Forbid if it is the spanish type socialism.

That is still to be seen Umberto. I'm not all that convinced that Sant will win. Three years are a long time in politics.

[malsey]

As always I enjoy reading your posts Umberto. I agree with you that the church should be thanked when they won against the islam. However today they are again working to get more muslims in europe, something which i cannot forgive to actual church. they are accepting millions of immigrants with the hope to convert some thousands, while many more thousands are Islams.

I feel really sorry that Gonzi is a fundamentist cristian, he cannot take a decision without first see whether it will influence if he goes to heaven or hell!.

Regards Sant I also have my reservations. Myself as you pray that he is not the socialist like Spain. However what I can assure most of you there are more right wings in the present MLP than in the actual PN whether you believe it or not.


Every catholic is somewhat influenced by the church.

The position of the prime minister is different as he has to consider the national interest first and foremost. In three years time, we will probably have a PM which cannot be said to be a Catholic. We will see how he will act re. some issues. God Forbid if it is the spanish type socialism.

[malsey]

However I cannot understand how some people are saying that the church today is not involved in politics.

Do you remember a few weeks ago Jason Azzopardi asking the arcbishop Mercieca to speak against racism just because lowel held a meeting in Safi( could be arkon, myself, or any other who held a meeting). and the day after Our isqof condemns racism??

Do you read Dun Ang Seychell attacking on l orrizzont Gavin Gulia, because he said that economic refugees should be sent home??


Its true in most of europe the church has lost some power, but this cannot be said in malta.

Regards the BBQ again, we do it in a full moon, because at least we will have some more light. I hope some of you are not thinking we are even satanists. ( to relax your minds there is a large number of us who are vegiterians which means cannot eat cats, of what else they eat during a black mass)

[Canadian Charlie]

What a load of bull shit that is "The church is not involved in politics" those who believe in this must be getting a little something extra from the church.


Our church is very racist, my father often told me stories about that if you were a Labourist during the 50's and 60's you were not welcomed in a church.


Sorry Malsey, I'm no vegitarian.... :D

moderator's note: this sort of vulgarity is not welcome. Please tone it down

[malsey]

Of course your father is right. They couldn t even get recieve holy communion, they were not allowed in certain jobs. My grandfather from Lija gave him a job to hal luqa simply because he was labour and he had to go by foot!!!!!. Even at Museum, the laburisti were always put in a corner on there own.

Well this just happened 50 years ago.
I condemn also what Mintoff did to the Nationalists, but if you make 1+1 he just did the same as the church a few years before had done to the laburisti.

Definetely they are both wrong, but we cannot condem only mintoff, while we make the church as a hero.


What a load of bull shit that is "The church is not involved in politics" those who believe in this must be getting a little something extra from the church.


Our church is very racist, my father often told me stories about that if you were a Labourist during the 50's and 60's you were not welcomed in a church.


Sorry Malsey, I'm no vegitarian.... :D

quote censored

[Arkon]

As always I enjoy reading your posts Umberto. I agree with you that the church should be thanked when they won against the islam. However today they are again working to get more muslims in europe, something which i cannot forgive to actual church. they are accepting millions of immigrants with the hope to convert some thousands, while many more thousands are Islams.

I feel really sorry that Gonzi is a fundamentist cristian, he cannot take a decision without first see whether it will influence if he goes to heaven or hell!.

Regards Sant I also have my reservations. Myself as you pray that he is not the socialist like Spain. However what I can assure most of you there are more right wings in the present MLP than in the actual PN whether you believe it or not.

If Gonzi is a Christian and Eddie before him even more so, its nobody's fault. They were both elected democratically.

If their policies stink, we can only blame the democratic system we go by. So where does the church come into this?

Its about choosing the right kind of leadership isn't it?

People will have the government they deserve....


Look at it this way: When the moslims were a threat, the church organised the Crusades, a few martyrs and hoop-la the moslims were gone.

If it weren't for that we'd all be hollering 'Allah hu Akbar' 3 times a day.

Be thankful for some favours http://www.vivamalta.org/images/icons/icon10.gif

Now to come to the point:

For those of you who think that the church is calling the shots in this country:

The church simply does its job, but we have to do ours. If so many people think its cool to bring in the Somalis by the container-load, then we're not doing our job.


So quit attacking the church and show the people who matter some reason. I guarantee anyone here that there will not be one Somali less this summer if we convince 400,00 Maltese that the Church was wrong in damning the Mintoffians in the sixties.

Think about it.

[malsey]

Arkon the problem is simple. Bhal kull religjon ohra il kristjanezmu jrid iktar nies. Issa probabli mhux se taqbel mieghi, pero hu fatt li l bojod ma ghadhomx jaghtu kas xi tghid il knisja. l unika tama hi l afrika ghall kristjanemzu. issa qed jahdmu biex nithaltu maghhom, u ngiebu kemm nistaw hawn biex nikkonvertu in nies.


pero il knisja qed tara just one side of the coin. Ghax qed jigu elf, 100 jsiru kristjani u 900 jibdaw jew issiru musulmani.

il problema hi kbira arkon, tifimniex hazin, u soluzzjonijiet difficli wkoll. verament irridu nghidu il bambin ikun maghna biex nimxu sew minghajr dmija.

[Niccolo]

Bhal kull religjon ohra il kristjanezmu jrid iktar nies.

Very true malsey. A few weeks ago in a local newspaper i saw a statistic released by the vatican saying that in the world there are 1.3 billion muslims and 1.15 billion christians. The press release continued by saying that the christians must work harder to convert more people to christianity, so one day we will outnumber the muslims!

Where is the spirituality in that? Is this some sort of competition between religions?

[destrasinister]

What a load of bull shit that is "The church is not involved in politics" those who believe in this must be getting a little something extra from the church.


Our church is very racist, my father often told me stories about that if you were a Labourist during the 50's and 60's you were not welcomed in a church.


Sorry Malsey, I'm no vegitarian.... :D

the only church exponents like canadian charlie espouse is the church of omniscience where adherence is born of an assumptoon that he and those who aspouse his beliefs are of the more valuable genus because their psyche adopts traits that hints at origins in the american landmass

quote censored

[Marco Polo]

First of all I would like to apologize to all the 'serious' catholics around here who take their 'nomeatnosweetsongoodfriday' rule seriously.

I should really learn to keep my 'ignorant' mouth shut and let tradition be.

I have been told that I should be more more responsible with my posts and I will try to be so.

Again, sorry If I offended any Zealots.

Oh, and thanks for the link Drugo

[Angelfish]

The church has always been an easy target for mud-slinging especially in an enviorment where freedom of speech is a basic human right.
Unfortunatly , I really cannot understand what throwing mud at the church will help us achieve at a time when we native Maltese and our traditional Maltese way of life is facing the bleak and real prospect of ending up being a minority in a few generations time.
Is now, the appropriate time to demonstrate such rabid and anticlerical sentiments in our country?

[PERICLES]

Is now, the appropriate time to demonstrate such rabid and anticlerical sentiments in our country?

I don't like political convenience. We should criticise ANY institutions which deserves criticism.

[argo]

The church has always been an easy target for mud-slinging especially in an enviorment where freedom of speech is a basic human right.
Unfortunatly , I really cannot understand what throwing mud at the church will help us achieve at a time when we native Maltese and our traditional Maltese way of life is facing the bleak and real prospect of ending up being a minority in a few generations time.
Is now, the appropriate time to demonstrate such rabid and anticlerical sentiments in our country?

Is it a coincidence that those most guilty for encouraging klandestini to come to our shores are clerics? Why is it the church that is the main backer of most of the pro-immigration organisations sprouting up with disgusting regularity? See the Sunday Times today, some Christian wotsit backed by the JRS fighting for the abolition of detention of these criminals.

Yes, the Church is guilty in this respect and must carry the responsibility. Achieving a black catholic Malta is not my idea of a traditional way of life.

[Angelfish]

Is it a coincidence that those most guilty for encouraging klandestini to come to our shores are clerics? Why is it the church that is the main backer of most of the pro-immigration organisations sprouting up with disgusting regularity? See the Sunday Times today, some Christian wotsit backed by the JRS fighting for the abolition of detention of these criminals.

Yes, the Church is guilty in this respect and must carry the responsibility. Achieving a black catholic Malta is not my idea of a traditional way of life.

The JRS and Jeuits are a law unto themsleves and pay scant regard to the what the local bishop or the pope may say.
They consider themselves the Army of Jesus and therefore above church law.
Their motto is the end justifies the means...all means even at the cost of breaking any or all of God's very own comandments.
As far as they are concerned , if there is the very minimal chance of converting one single African by importing him to Malta , they would do it without thinking twice even if it means that there is a very strong possibility in that , in doing so , ha jinkazzaw eluf ta' Maltin nies u jtellfulhom ruhhom!
Run a good Search in the subject on the net , from reliable sources , and you will understand what I mean.

[argo]

The JRS and Jeuits are a law unto themsleves and pay scant regard to the what the local bishop or the pope may say.
They consider themselves the Army of Jesus and therefore above church law.
Their motto is the end justifies the means...all means even at the cost of breaking any or all of God's very own comandments.
As far as they are concerned , if there is the very minimal chance of converting one single African by importing him to Malta , they would do it without thinking twice even if it means that there is a very strong possibility in that , in doing so , ha jinkazzaw eluf ta' Maltin nies u jtellfulhom ruhhom!
Run a good Search in the subject on the net , from reliable sources , and you will understand what I mean.

I know fully well what the Jesuits are. But Dionysius is Franciscan. I mean we all know that St Francis was a communist so we cannot expect better. Also during the Duluri procession they were praying for the needs of the refugjati.

Just a small correction the motto is 'The end sanctifies the means.' That is much more ominous.

[Arkon]

I know fully well what the Jesuits are. But Dionysius is Franciscan. I mean we all know that St Francis was a communist so we cannot expect better. Also during the Duluri procession they were praying for the needs of the refugjati.

Just a small correction the motto is 'The end sanctifies the means.' That is much more ominous.

Therefore we have a lot to learn from the Jesuits.

They, very industriously fight for every potential member for the Christian faith, even going as far as importiing muslims inn the hope of converting them. We on the other hand try top counter by attacking the whole episcopal organisation, and just like a bunch of idiots, we successfully manage to alienate as many people as possible from our cause.



At this rate I don't think that the JRS will be needing many letters from sympathisers in the papers to succesdsful overrun Malta. We're doing it for them

I don't like political convenience. We should criticise ANY institutions which deserves criticism.

Very heroic... why don't you just simply donate all the guns and ammunition to the enemy, that way your victory will be most glorious.

[Arkon]

Quote:
Originally Posted by argo
I know fully well what the Jesuits are. But Dionysius is Franciscan. I mean we all know that St Francis was a communist so we cannot expect better. Also during the Duluri procession they were praying for the needs of the refugjati.

Just a small correction the motto is 'The end sanctifies the means.' That is much more ominous.



Therefore we have a lot to learn from the Jesuits.

They, very industriously fight for every potential member for the Christian faith, even going as far as importiing muslims inn the hope of converting them. We on the other hand try to counter by attacking the whole episcopal organisation, and just like a bunch of idiots, we successfully manage to alienate as many people as possible from our cause.



At this rate I don't think that the JRS will be needing many letters from sympathisers in the papers to successfully overrun Malta. We're doing it for them...

Quote:
Originally Posted by pericles
I don't like political convenience. We should criticise ANY institutions which deserves criticism.



Very heroic... why don't you just simply donate all the guns and ammunition to the enemy, that way your victory will be most glorious.

[PERICLES]

Very heroic... why don't you just simply donate all the guns and ammunition to the enemy, that way your victory will be most glorious.

Are you implying that by criticising the Church we're PROMOTING illegal immigration? I'm sorry but this sounds pretty weird to me!

[umberto]

I think 'the church wants a black catholic malta' verges somewhat on conspiracy theory. With all respect to opinions. True that the JRS and some misguided priests are unreasonable but they are not even under direct local archbishop control.

Lets face it, i see nothing wrong with processions praying for the needs of refugees, especially if that means the 'relocation' needs. For the Christians, Christ was also a refugee. What some forget to say however is that he was a genuine persecution temporary one, that returned back when troubles were over.

I cannot but mention the work done by Mons Philip Calleja who goes beyond himself to relocate refugees, and stated more than once on GrimaLive that the govt. must work his ass to obtain burden sharing agreements. Neither the relocations done by Dar l-Emigrant, which some misguideds criticised for it using chairty funds for such purposes. charity funds, taxes ......they are all the same, and the cost of leaving them here is much higher.

Come on. The church is not mad. Though it probably preaches one thing and think another. In this case, so well so good. It could have populated convents and halls with black christians. So far it was reluctant.

As pericles said, it is not a bad thing to criticise. But all out war against the church, apart from being a certain defeat, it is a strategic mistake.

[PERICLES]

I think 'the church wants a black catholic malta' verges somewhat on conspiracy theory. With all respect to opinions. True that the JRS and some misguided priests are unreasonable but they are not even under direct local archbishop control.

Lets face it, i see nothing wrong with processions praying for the needs of refugees, especially if that means the 'relocation' needs. For the Christians, Christ was also a refugee. What some forget to say however is that he was a genuine persecution temporary one, that returned back when troubles were over.

I cannot but mention the work done by Mons Philip Calleja who goes beyond himself to relocate refugees, and stated more than once on GrimaLive that the govt. must work his ass to obtain burden sharing agreements. Neither the relocations done by Dar l-Emigrant, which some misguideds criticised for it using chairty funds for such purposes. charity funds, taxes ......they are all the same, and the cost of leaving them here is much higher.

Come on. The church is not mad. Though it probably preaches one thing and think another. In this case, so well so good. It could have populated convents and halls with black christians. So far it was reluctant.

As pericles said, it is not a bad thing to criticise. But all out war against the church, apart from being a certain defeat, it is a strategic mistake.

True. We don't want an all out war.

[argo]

So we use the excuse that the archbishop or whoever is supposed to be running the church in Malta is incapable of controlling the Jesuits, the Franciscans the Sorijiet tal-Bon Pastur(?!!) It is a free for all. Libertinagg totali. You should have seen crowds of Africans being herded into the Accelerated Christian Academy today, Easter Sunday. Every man and his dog is jumping on the black bandwagon!

I will stop criticising the KKKK when one, just one cleric stands up and says the truth. Until such time I will continue to expose the reasons for which the KKKK is encouraging this mad influx.

Just as a little sideline. Do you guys (and gals) remember the thread about the Lost Klandestin on avemelita. How it came to pass that there were some allegedly indecent goings on at Dar is-Slime in Sta Venera. Well well well, seeing that I have not been hauled to court for libel or incitement I will suggest that someone checks whether it is true that some do-gooder has resigned his position from the running of the said Dar is-Slime.

I also have it from normally reliable sources that a case for unfair dismissal brought before the Tribunal for Injustices has taken a most embarassing twist. You see the person dismissed had alerted the administrators of Dar is-Slime to possible cases of paedofilia involving certain residents of the said Dar and their holy carers. He also reported certain facts to the Police Vice Squad. I doubt Daniella Vella will be writing about this in The Times.

No wonder the JRS and the rest of the Catholic do-gooders INSIST that underage klandestini be transferred to their 'care'.

They love them.
xxx

[Marco Polo]

So we use the excuse that the archbishop or whoever is supposed to be running the church in Malta is incapable of controlling the Jesuits, the Franciscans the Sorijiet tal-Bon Pastur(?!!) It is a free for all. Libertinagg totali. You should have seen crowds of Africans being herded into the Accelerated Christian Academy today, Easter Sunday. Every man and his dog is jumping on the black bandwagon!

I will stop criticising the KKKK when one, just one cleric stands up and says the truth. Until such time I will continue to expose the reasons for which the KKKK is encouraging this mad influx.

Just as a little sideline. Do you guys (and gals) remember the thread about the Lost Klandestin on avemelita. How it came to pass that there were some allegedly indecent goings on at Dar is-Slime in Sta Venera. Well well well, seeing that I have not been hauled to court for libel or incitement I will suggest that someone checks whether it is true that some do-gooder has resigned his position from the running of the said Dar is-Slime.

I also have it from normally reliable sources that a case for unfair dismissal brought before the Tribunal for Injustices has taken a most embarassing twist. You see the person dismissed had alerted the administrators of Dar is-Slime to possible cases of paedofilia involving certain residents of the said Dar and their holy carers. He also reported certain facts to the Police Vice Squad. I doubt Daniella Vella will be writing about this in The Times.

No wonder the JRS and the rest of the Catholic do-gooders INSIST that underage klandestini be transferred to their 'care'.

They love them.
xxx

i'd like to join you charles but i've been told off so I have to behave myself in future :(

[argo]

i'd like to join you charles but i've been told off so I have to behave myself in future :(

Facts are facts and that is it. It is God's truth. So are we to suppress the truth now for fear of raising the ire of those who have hijacked goodness for their ends?

This not gratuitous criticism. It is what is happening. If there are some who wish to bury their head in the sand they are on the wrong forum. Go to graffitti.org and join them in a spliff to further detach you from the truth.

[malsey]

well recently i also heard that 4 boys escaped during night. Obviously they shouldn't have done this. However what i heard is that as a punishment they are given only 1 meal a day and they are closed in a room on there own.

If this is true I ask isnt again human rights??? Today if you just tati xeba fuq il patata it tifel itellawk il qorti.


Dik id dar tal biza. tfal ghaddew jew ghadhom jghaddu minn terrur, u l isqof u ta madwaru ma jghidu xejn.

[argo]

well recently i also heard that 4 boys escaped during night. Obviously they shouldn't have done this. However what i heard is that as a punishment they are given only 1 meal a day and they are closed in a room on there own.

If this is true I ask isnt again human rights??? Today if you just tati xeba fuq il patata it tifel itellawk il qorti.


Dik id dar tal biza. tfal ghaddew jew ghadhom jghaddu minn terrur, u l isqof u ta madwaru ma jghidu xejn.


I hope that the one meal a day that these boys are given does not consist of bajd mal-patata u ross kemm trid!!

[Marco Polo]

Nah, the person was right really. I may disagree with the teachings of the church but i have to at least respect the belief of most of the Maltese people. I don't have any faith at all in the modern church and it's capacity to defend our culture, but if that is what people wish to put their faith in then so be it.

I sincerely hope that the church wakes up and does something posititive for our culture. If the church doesn't then I hope that there will be at least one or two priests who stand up and defend their people. Islam takes no prisoners!

[umberto]

Obviously all these things are wrong, should be criticised, and exposed. They are doing a bad name.

[malsey]

Like most of the times we are agreeing umberto. What we want is that such things have to be reported because they are bad, especially if one calls himself cristian.
The church should be the first to condem such cases.


Obviously all these things are wrong, should be criticised, and exposed. They are doing a bad name.

[Arkon]

Nah, the person was right really. I may disagree with the teachings of the church but i have to at least respect the belief of most of the Maltese people. I don't have any faith at all in the modern church and it's capacity to defend our culture, but if that is what people wish to put their faith in then so be it.

I sincerely hope that the church wakes up and does something posititive for our culture. If the church doesn't then I hope that there will be at least one or two priests who stand up and defend their people. Islam takes no prisoners!

Now THAT sounds like some rational reasoning!

However there are those amongst us who seem to derive pleasure from extracting the ecumenical pound of flesh. It will not serve our purpose to have our movement branded with an anti-clerical label. I am about spreading the word and making the radical right movement stronger and not about making the church weaker. There is very little to be gained from the latter. Let the Marxist/Anarchists’ do their own dirty work.



Therfore it seems that we are all right but we are in disagreement because we have differing objectives.

I consider this debate closed, at least from my end.


Thank you for hearing my views.

[iddrugo]

First of all I would like to apologize to all the 'serious' catholics around here who take their 'nomeatnosweetsongoodfriday' rule seriously.

I should really learn to keep my 'ignorant' mouth shut and let tradition be.

I have been told that I should be more more responsible with my posts and I will try to be so.

Again, sorry If I offended any Zealots.

Oh, and thanks for the link Drugo

You're welcome Marco. I happened to be looking up the info myself when I read your post as I had just had a fight wid my mum over her not letting me open a packet of buscuits whilst i was visiting her on Good Friday!!! :confused:
Unfortunately due to my job and my bodily functions I could not observe my fasting and abstinence obligations :D

P.S. That webiste quoted is a very informative one. Information about practically anything can be found at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page

[Angelfish]

I know fully well what the Jesuits are. But Dionysius is Franciscan. I mean we all know that St Francis was a communist so we cannot expect better. Also during the Duluri procession they were praying for the needs of the refugjati.

Just a small correction the motto is 'The end sanctifies the means.' That is much more ominous.

Il Fragiskani are your typical genuine, short-sighted, do-gooders and so their point of view can be understood to a certain degree. But I can think of several organisations local and abroad who have nothing to do wth religious orders yet who do not think twice about selling off their birthright for the proverbial bowl of mutton stew!

[argo]

It seems that the $hit has hit the fan big time at Dar is-Slime.

Alfie Dear has in fact resigned from his position and he left in such haste that he did not even work his notice period. He will now have ample time to go to Ta' Xbiex Yacht Marina for a leisurely cruise, on a yacht of course, you dirty minded lot.

Another interesting development was the appointment of an Ethopian girl as care worker. What a wonderful gesture towards this poor refugee. How Christian! Or was it? Wicked, wagging tongues have rumoured that this same girl had made very serious allegations about being 'abused' by someone employed at Dar es Salaam. It has been suggested that this appointment was awarded so that she retracts her allegations and keeps her mouth shut. Now, one would have thought that this is just libelous gossip but there is one more fact which gives the whole matter a sinister twist.

Apparently there have been insinuations that this newly appointed care worker had assaulted a Ukrainian minor asylum seeker and injured her about the face. That must surely be the ultimate qualification for a (s)care-worker! It seems that someone has an interest that she really keeps her mouth shut.

Is it true that Daniela Vella of the JRS sat on the board of directors of Dar is-Sliem? Is it also true that a prominent member of the JRS is seriously ill with a terminal disease which can be transmitted through intimate contact?

Mind boggling? Not really, just normal goings on in Dar es Salaam.

[argo]

Oh, I had forgotten.

Why are journalists not allowed to interview the inmates at Dar is-Slime?

And yet all the dewey eyed journalists have been pressuring the Government for access to the AFM/Police detention centres. A case of 2 weights and 2 measures?

[umberto]

poor girl. she must be thro' hell. Is she the one abandoned by her mother?

[PERICLES]

I hope you have evidence for what you said argo.

[Angelfish]

An aquaintance of mine was telling me in a matter of fact way that every evening at about eight, the female irregulars at the Peace Laboratory are seen to leave quite openly and at the gates being picked up by men in cars.
The going rate is two pounds a session.
Anyone in authority doing anything to ensure that HIV ,AIDS, HERPES and a number of other sexually transmitted disorders will not end up causing an epidemic on a national scale?

[argo]

I hope you have evidence for what you said argo.


Do I ever lie on the forum?

Regarding Dar is-Slime there will be more to come later this week. There is a police investigation going on about abuse on minors by the holy staff there. There is a case before the industrial tribunal about unfair dismissal of a person of the staff who alerted the police to this abuse.

I will keep you posted. Do not expect Herman Grech or Karl Stagno Navarra to give you this sort of news.

[Florian Geyer]

An aquaintance of mine was telling me in a matter of fact way that every evening at about eight, the female irregulars at the Peace Laboratory are seen to leave quite openly and at the gates being picked up by men in cars.
The going rate is two pounds a session.
Anyone in authority doing anything to ensure that HIV ,AIDS, HERPES and a number of other sexually transmitted disorders will not end up causing an epidemic on a national scale?

Thats been going on for ages.They sit around over there as though they were sitting under a desert bush.You pass that area about 4-5pm and you would think you were in mogadishu.:mad:

[argo]

An aquaintance of mine was telling me in a matter of fact way that every evening at about eight, the female irregulars at the Peace Laboratory are seen to leave quite openly and at the gates being picked up by men in cars.
The going rate is two pounds a session.
Anyone in authority doing anything to ensure that HIV ,AIDS, HERPES and a number of other sexually transmitted disorders will not end up causing an epidemic on a national scale?

I am glad you said that Angelfish. I was starting to feel like the resident rabble rouser. Not that I mind, but I enjoy good company!! :D

[PERICLES]

Do I ever lie on the forum?

Regarding Dar is-Slime there will be more to come later this week. There is a police investigation going on about abuse on minors by the holy staff there. There is a case before the industrial tribunal about unfair dismissal of a person of the staff who alerted the police to this abuse.

I will keep you posted. Do not expect Herman Grech or Karl Stagno Navarra to give you this sort of news.

Miniex qed nghidlek li qed tigdeb. Qed insaqsik jekk ghandekx hard evidence halli jekk xi hadd jiccelingjak tkun tista tiddefendi ruhek.

[Angelfish]

Do I ever lie on the forum?

Regarding Dar is-Slime there will be more to come later this week. There is a police investigation going on about abuse on minors by the holy staff there. There is a case before the industrial tribunal about unfair dismissal of a person of the staff who alerted the police to this abuse.

I will keep you posted. Do not expect Herman Grech or Karl Stagno Navarra to give you this sort of news.

Where there is a huge influx of refugees there is very good business for some in the form of white slavery, pedophilia, pornography, the business of selling body parts as well as cheap labour etc. And this happens worldwide.
Run a search on the net and you will see what I mean.
First , certain international humanitarian groups entice them out of their homeland with the promise of heaven on earth in Europe or elsewhere in a few weeks. Then they start fleecing them for all that they are worth as well as demanding offical funds from goverment and other international bodies, and only God knows when the refugees are eventually resettled anyway.

[argo]

Miniex qed nghidlek li qed tigdeb. Qed insaqsik jekk ghandekx hard evidence halli jekk xi hadd jiccelingjak tkun tista tiddefendi ruhek.

These are hard facts. If someone resigned then that's it. If you want to know the name I will give it to you. Alfred Xerri or Scerri or Sherry.

Nobody is going to challenge anyone on that because they will check first and find out that it is true. On the contrary, the scum involved will keep quiet because if they try to stir the shit more will end up hitting the proverbial fan.

[argo]

An aquaintance of mine was telling me in a matter of fact way that every evening at about eight, the female irregulars at the Peace Laboratory are seen to leave quite openly and at the gates being picked up by men in cars.
The going rate is two pounds a session.
Anyone in authority doing anything to ensure that HIV ,AIDS, HERPES and a number of other sexually transmitted disorders will not end up causing an epidemic on a national scale?

At two pounds a session the hookers at Testaferrata Street will be out of business in no time. They should form a Union and fight for their rights. That's what they do in Holland and Germany.

Support your local hooker :D :D

[iddrugo]

At two pounds a session the hookers at Testaferrata Street will be out of business in no time. They should form a Union and fight for their rights. That's what they do in Holland and Germany.

Support your local hooker :D :D

Might I suggest the setting up of a pressure group called Moviment Nazzjonali Ghall-Harsien tal-Prostituti Maltin or something of the sort. LOL :D

Joking apart, wasn't someone from Avemelita (I think Maltarian) going to photograph these goings on?? What happened to that plan?? If we have proof in photos nobody can accuse us of lying!!

[malsey]

ghalhekk meta wiehed jaghmel 1+1 jasal ghall konkluzjoni ghala certu nies irridu iktar immigranti l hawn.

u abela x se jghamel issa??? dak li jrid malta refugee center?

[iddrugo]

ghalhekk meta wiehed jaghmel 1+1 jasal ghall konkluzjoni ghala certu nies irridu iktar immigranti l hawn.

u abela x se jghamel issa??? dak li jrid malta refugee center?

mals xi agenda mohbija ikun hemm DEJJEM!!! Hadd, specjalment hawn Malta, ma jaghmel xejn ghal xejn. Xi hadd dejjem se jkun qed idahhal xi haga, jew fil-but, jew x'imkien iehor...u ifhimni :p

[argo]

Without doubt the holy do-gooders will attempt to justify prostitution. They have done the same with robbery, drug taking and illegal work. They will reason that the situation leaves them no alternative and they must feed themselves and their little brown babies.

What will happen when one of these prostitutes gets pregnant by one of the low-life who frequent them?

Who do you think will end up paying for the upbringing of this future problem?

[iddrugo]

Even worse, what will happen when an epidemic of some sort breaks out!!?? The risk are already there when using the services :confused: of local prostitutes, let alone when going with Africa with all the Aids, Ebola and what not they bring with them!! God (or whoever) help us when that happens!!!

[Marco Polo]

i agree with argo.

I am sure the ngo's will turn this prostitution problem to their advantage and start shouting "the poor immigrants have to sell themselves". They would then call for them to be given greater social assistance stating that otherwise the immigrants will be forced to turn to crime.

[iddrugo]

lejn xi haga hekk resqin...give them more money and they will not need to prostitute themselves!!!

[malsey]

Again I agree with you. However keep one think in mind. Malta is going bankrupt day after day. Just in February gonzu did 41million debt, and as everybody knows they collected alot of delayed taxes.

So were the hell money will come from?? Maybe increase VAT for 25%??


i agree with argo.

I am sure the ngo's will turn this prostitution problem to their advantage and start shouting "the poor immigrants have to sell themselves". They would then call for them to be given greater social assistance stating that otherwise the immigrants will be forced to turn to crime.

[Marco Polo]

The stupid thing is that the more we are taxed the less we will spend, thus revenues remain the same although government is taking a larger percentage of the national economy than before.

Cut what needs to be cut, weed the government garden and mend the holes in the bucket before filling it!