Discussion of DNA-based ID Cards

[IMPERIUM]

That DNA test will be undertaken by all persons within the Imperium.
Only Europids will be allowed to remain within - or accepted from without.
A ID card with all information, without which, one can neither buy nor sell, board a train, bus, job...

We will starve all non-Europids within the Imperium.
We will ferret them out - and they will be forcibly repatriated.
We will forge an Imperium for Europids only.

This is the IE Vision.
This is what we are determined to achieve.
This is what Malta, this Sacred Island, is offering to all Europids, world wide.

Imperium
0712

[Marco Polo]

That DNA test will be undertaken by all persons within the Imperium.
Only Europids will be allowed to remain within - or accepted from without.
A ID card with all information, without which, one can neither buy nor sell, board a train, bus, job...

We will starve all non-Europids within the Imperium.
We will ferret them out - and they will be forcibly repatriated.
We will forge an Imperium for Europids only.

This is the IE Vision.
This is what we are determined to achieve.
This is what Malta, this Sacred Island, is offering to all Europids, world wide.

Imperium
0712





i disagree totally with any id card.

the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

[Ulfur Engil]

I find it saddening that something with such great potential will probably disappear in time, simply because the implications are not 'politically expedient.'

Anything that reveals the Truth will always be feared and suppressed.

[IMPERIUM]

i disagree totally with any id card.

the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
A uniform ID card throughout the Imperium has many benefits.
It will store all information about the card holder.
It will act as Passport and ticket to all means of transport.

It will eliminate cash - all transactions will be electronic - thus reduce crime.
A sought criminal using his ID card to avoid starvation, will immediately give away his whereabouts.
10% VAT will be paid by all Imperium subjects on all transactions - no tax evasion.

Non Europids, having no ID Imperium card, will simply starve.
They will be ferreted out in six weeks flat.
They will then be dumped to their respective continents.

Imperium
0712

[Jurgenarius]

A uniform ID card throughout the Imperium has many benefits.
It will store all information about the card holder.
It will act as Passport and ticket to all means of transport.
-Yes, good. it will just 1 document instead many papers and stuff.


It will eliminate cash - all transactions will be electronic - thus reduce crime.
A sought criminal who uses his ID card to simply avoid starvation, will immediately give away his whereabouts.
10% VAT will be paid by all Imperium subjects on all transactions - no tax evasion.
-This one looks like the New World Order Plan....


Non Europids, having no ID Imperium card, will simply starve.
They will be ferreted out in six weeks flat.
They will then be dumped to their respective continents.
-In this Case its a good idea.

[Marco Polo]

A uniform ID card throughout the Imperium has many benefits.
It will store all information about the card holder.
It will act as Passport and ticket to all means of transport.

It will eliminate cash - all transactions will be electronic - thus reduce crime.
A sought criminal who uses his ID card to simply avoid starvation, will immediately give away his whereabouts.
10% VAT will be paid by all Imperium subjects on all transactions - no tax evasion.

Non Europids, having no ID Imperium card, will simply starve.
They will be ferreted out in six weeks flat.
They will then be dumped to their respective continents.

Imperium
0712





i am not a number and will not be controlled by the state. an id card does more bad than good. actually its not the id card thats bad but the database behind it.

its all very well to advocate an id system for a good government but it can very easily be abused.

[shadow cup]

Yes it 'can' be abused.

The question is how to marginalize the ways that it can be abused and for how long. I personally believe that the technology is beneficial, if implimented properly, and definitely is preferable to any form of birth-installed chip that some are talking about.

The greatest issue is the limitation of accessibility of such information by individuals and groups who ought not be accessing such information. One way of doing this is by the monitoring of all access attempts, successful or otherwise of individuals' information and by whom, making such information, to a degree, accessible to all, including the individuals themselves and monitoring, anti-fraud agencies, that also monitor each other (duplication in this case serves as a fail-safe).

There are ways to get around the privacy implications. First of all I believe it to be sufficient for such an ID card to be useable for purchase/ exchange reasons without a need to get into accessing vehicles and the sort (though limited access buildings perhaps). If somebody wants to visit a friend then the government does not need to know this, knowing only that, for example, Mr so and so spent a weekend in so-and-so area based upon purchase location data and that he chose a certain route based upon the purchase of fuel at a particular place.

Yes it no doubt could use further tuning to ensure ethical soundness but it sure beats the current monetary system that motivates such a major portion of crime.

Incorporating some kind of bartering system would also be important - but I have not considered this aspect in much depth so far.

[shadow cup]

Thread split from here (http://www.vivamalta.org/forum/showthread.php?t=7207&page=3).

[Marco Polo]

i dont agree with our dna details being stored. i dont agree with any personal details being stored by government for that matter.

malta's government does not abuse the system as far as i can tell. i am certain englands would. i would never trust the british gov with such a database. i dont just mean they will lose all the data either. it will be abused by them.

[shadow cup]

i dont agree with our dna details being stored. i dont agree with any personal details being stored by government for that matter.


The genetic makeup of an individual is practically unique. A card that is only useable by the designated owner has very positive applications imho.


malta's government does not abuse the system as far as i can tell. i am certain englands would. i would never trust the british gov with such a database. i dont just mean they will lose all the data either. it will be abused by them.

You are right in believing that countermeasures against the abuse of confidential information would be necessary, even upon the level of government. As long as seekers of information can be tracked and identified without fail by entities far beyond the reach of any single entity, even governments could be made accountable for questionable instances of access, let alone data misuse.

[IMPERIUM]

The Imperium ID will be an Imperium prerogative (not Dominium).
This is an Imperium Racial/Territory issue.
The Elite will be the holders of the ID bank, not the British Govt - there is no cause for alarm.

Imperium
0712

[Marco Polo]

and what checks and measures would there be on the elite? what if one of them doesnt like me and wants to abuse his power?

[Einhander]

Hooray, Europids all the way!

Anyway, I think the idea of an ID card is an interesting one. Right now there is speculation on a conspiracy theory that the United States wants to microchip people with an electronic chip which will act as a bankcard, ID, etc... The main issue with it is that if the government goes a little on the 1984 side, they could turn off someone's Identification chip if he dissents or rebels against the current state authority. However I think if people are armed this is not so much likely to happen. I much agree with Imperium that it would lower crime and cut time, it would be very convenient.

[shadow cup]

I would be more concerned about ID chips designed with the capacity to influence or inflict death upon 'unwanted' elements of society.

I personally draw the line on implantations. It is too invasive. At least with an ID card it would be possible for an individual to coast through the use of a friend's card (obviously with consent and presence of said friend), just as it would be possible to leave an ID card at home while going for a stroll around town. Chips wouldn't even let you catch 40 winks without being tracked. This is why I firmly believe that such should only be tracked via use or while within high security zones (such as airports).

As for the elite, I would suggest that not even the elite ought to be beyond accountability. Such is a matter of fairness, not equality.

[Marco Polo]

Hooray, Europids all the way!

Anyway, I think the idea of an ID card is an interesting one. Right now there is speculation on a conspiracy theory that the United States wants to microchip people with an electronic chip which will act as a bankcard, ID, etc... The main issue with it is that if the government goes a little on the 1984 side, they could turn off someone's Identification chip if he dissents or rebels against the current state authority. However I think if people are armed this is not so much likely to happen. I much agree with Imperium that it would lower crime and cut time, it would be very convenient.
that is inevitably what will happen to someone. i would not want someone -even if they have differing views to me- to have their freedoms curbed in that way.

also let me quote benjamin franklin for the nth time.

"those who desire security over liberty deserve neither."

[Einhander]

that is inevitably what will happen to someone. i would not want someone -even if they have differing views to me- to have their freedoms curbed in that way.

Hmm... this is difficult, if someone believes a blatant lie and this such lie influences society for a negative I do not think this such 'lie' would be worth sustaining merely in the name of 'liberty'.

"those who desire security over liberty deserve neither."

To me, happiness/security is much more important than American masonic ideals of 'liberty'. Although liberty is important ofcoarse but it should never be placed above the happiness and security of the people.

[Marco Polo]

Hmm... this is difficult, if someone believes a blatant lie and this such lie influences society for a negative I do not think this such 'lie' would be worth sustaining merely in the name of 'liberty'.

To me, happiness/security is much more important than American masonic ideals of 'liberty'. Although liberty is important ofcoarse but it should never be placed above the happiness and security of the people.

since when did happiness and security mean the same thing? to the casual observer surely happiness would be synonymous with liberty more so than security?

since when has liberty been a masonic virtue?

[shadow cup]

also let me quote benjamin franklin for the nth time.

"those who desire security over liberty deserve neither."

Liberty is a word which can mean different things to different individuals. Is the desire for privacy a liberty or a right? It seems to me that liberty and privacy are not synonymous and that it is perfectly possible for one to have liberty without privacy (the relationship between Christians and God (not the Church) might fall under this category).

[Marco Polo]

Liberty is a word which can mean different things to different individuals. Is the desire for privacy a liberty or a right? It seems to me that liberty and privacy are not synonymous and that it is perfectly possible for one to have liberty without privacy (the relationship between Christians and God (not the Church) might fall under this category).

possibly yes.

but this is not about privacy. i am not too concerned about the maltese government having my details on the maltese id card system even though it may be an invasion of my privacy. i dont mind it because i doubt maltese govs will use it to restrict my liberty.

but a system such as the one advocated? it might be done with good intentions but like i said, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

[shadow cup]

possibly yes.

but this is not about privacy. i am not too concerned about the maltese government having my details on the maltese id card system even though it may be an invasion of my privacy. i dont mind it because i doubt maltese govs will use it to restrict my liberty.

but a system such as the one advocated?


I speak for my posts and not those of others when I say that the system that I envision is one where mountains of Euros or Dollars become redundant and never require minting, where businesses have specific terminals allowing for the access of particular kinds of information - typically financial for businesses. Practitioners of a profession may also access particular kinds of information, such as medical records by doctors or conduct history by police or legal advisers. In many cases data may only be accessed through the use of one's ID card by the self (DNA verification) although centralized institutions would have historic records of a certain type on all ID card holders - such as medical records. However the accessing of such information would be done via ID card access... therefore making any unauthorized access potentially trackable and accountable.

it might be done with good intentions but like i said, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

With due respect... the US constitution is being butchered in this day and age thanks to nefarious deceivers. You can try to prevent abuse but cannot personally guaranty it (as you won't be around for eternity to enforce it).

In the meantime you can try to make the system as devoid of inconsistency and ethical conflicts as possible. I believe that the current system does not hold a candle to this, were it taken to its logical implimentation.

[Marco Polo]

I speak for my posts and not those of others when I say that the system that I envision is one where mountains of Euros or Dollars become redundant and never require minting, where businesses have specific terminals allowing for the access of particular kinds of information - typically financial for businesses. Practitioners of a profession may also access particular kinds of information, such as medical records by doctors or conduct history by police or legal advisers. In many cases data may only be accessed through the use of one's ID card by the self (DNA verification) although centralized institutions would have historic records of a certain type on all ID card holders - such as medical records. However the accessing of such information would be done via ID card access... therefore making any unauthorized access potentially trackable and accountable.



With due respect... the US constitution is being butchered in this day and age thanks to nefarious deceivers. You can try to prevent abuse but cannot personally guaranty it (as you won't be around for eternity to enforce it).

In the meantime you can try to make the system as devoid of inconsistency and ethical conflicts as possible. I believe that the current system does not hold a candle to this, were it taken to its logical implimentation.

you havent seen the video 'money masters' yet huh?

what happens if someone wants to tamper with your super ID?

[shadow cup]

you havent seen the video 'money masters' yet huh?

what happens if someone wants to tamper with your super ID?
Tampering with an ID itself would render it useless and/ or mark it out to be a fraud. It is an access key more than a store for information itself. The data would be stored on many levels in something similar to an internet except with a very specific purpose and where each segment keeps track of all other segments.

As for thwarting hackers, I'm certain that it can be done in a controlled, closed, network.

For as far as key governing elements are concerned any attempt to access the database upon whatever level would be trackable by the individuals concerned, perhaps even be alerted to it as a matter of procedure. It would be a major headache plus they could be pinpointed if they attempted it (since they require an ID key to do so and an appropriate master terminal).

[Jurgenarius]

Norman, About the Credit Card part of the Imperium ID Card, Will be any money in the Imperium like Coins and paper money? Or only ID Card.

JB

[Sepp44]

http://www.evolvedgames.com/images/cover-dreddA.jpg

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51WHJN254BL._AA240_.jpg

http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2005/06/28/bell512.jpg

Hammer your UK passport (http://irdial.com/blogdial/?p=621)

Monday, March 5th, 2007 by irdial http://img.dailymail.co.uk//i/pix/2007/03_01/019PassportDM_228x342.jpg
They are the “safest ever”, according to the Government. But the Daily Mail reveals today how easily a person’s identity can be stolen from new biometric passports.
A shocking security gap allows the personal details and photograph in any electronic passport to be copied from the outside of the envelope in which it is delivered to homes.
The passport holder is none the wiser when it arrives because the white envelope has not been tampered with or opened.
Using a simple gadget built from parts bought on the Internet, it took the Mail less than four hours to copy the details from one passport.
It had been delivered in the normal way by national courier company Secure Mail Services to a young woman in Islington, North London.
With her permission we took away the envelope containing her passport and never opened it.
By the end of the afternoon, we had stolen enough information from the passport’s electronic chip - including the woman’s photograph - to be able to clone an identical document if we had wished.
More significantly, we had the details which would allow a fraudster, people trafficker or illegal immigrant to set up a new life in Britain.
The criminal could open a bank account, claim state benefits and undertake a myriad financial and legal transactions in someone else’s name.
This revelation will prove a major embarrassment to ministers. Since their introduction a year ago, more than four million biometric travel documents have been delivered by courier.
And I have no sympathy for any of them.
All of them were warned well in advance about the dangers of these passports, and yet, they all lined up for them like sheep.The Government believes this is the safest way of sending out passports. But this may be an illusion.
It is an illusion, and you have just proved it!
Each of these passports is now an ID transmitter that silently puts your information out there to whoever wants it.The passports are dispatched in white envelopes which are easily recognisable from the distinctive lettering and figures on the outside.
This is not the worst of it. Anyone carrying one of these ID transmitting passports around can have their information snarfed as they walk down the street. A smart snarfler will put antennae near the entrances of banks (or anywhere else that people regularly show their passports) and then sit back and watch the data roll in. They will not even have to be there. All they need to do is set up a system that phones home when it collects a batch of passports. Cheap laptops in a small box could do it with ease.There is no identity check on the person signing for the passport when it arrives. In multi-occupancy flats they can be handed to anyone at the address. Thousands have already gone missing.
That is irrelevant, since the data can be snarfed in transit or no matter where it is, wether the right person receives it or not.We began our investigation by asking Elizabeth Wood, a 33-year old web designer, to apply for a new biometric passport.
She telephoned the Identity and Passport Service on Monday, February 12.
Because she wanted the passport quickly, she was asked to go to the IPS office in Victoria, Central London, the following afternoon.
If she had not requested the fasttrack service, the passport would normally have been sent out without a face-to-face interview.
And now we have the sneaky advocation for the interrogation centres that HMG is setting up.The next day Miss Wood met an official for ten minutes. The details on her application form were verified using two forms of ID - normally a household bill and a bank statement. Her photograph was also examined.
Miss Wood paid 91 for the fasttrack delivery and was told her passport would be sent to her home by secure courier in exactly seven days.
That is as it should be. Getting a passport is a RIGHT. It is used only to tell governments of other countries that you are a British Citizen entitled to protections afforded to such people. Far too much weight is given to passports and identity documents like driving licenses.In fact, it took just four days, arriving when Miss Wood was in the shower. Her boyfriend went to the door and signed for the document. He was able to do so without showing any form of identity to the courier, who did not ask for Miss Wood.
This is also perfectly acceptable. If her passport goes missing, she will report it to the Passport Office and then they will cancel that passport number, meaning that it will become worthless. That is why it is ok for her boyfriend to collect the passport for her. A passport is not some magic book that confers UlTimAte PoWer to its holder. Get a grip you idiots!But there is another gaping hole in security. At first glance the new biometric passport looks much like the traditional one.
The only clue on the outside of the document that it contains an electronic chip is a small gold square on the front.
Inside the passport there is a laminated page containing the holder’s picture, passport number, name, nationality, sex, signature, date and place of birth and the document’s issue and expiry date.
At the bottom of this page are two lines of printed numbers and letters which can be read by a computer when the passport is swiped through a special machine by immigration officials. It is called the Machine Readable Zone.
On the back of the page is a tiny computer chip, surrounded by a coil of copper-coloured wire. This is a Radio Frequency Identification microchip, which can be read using radio waves.
Encoded on the passport’s RFID chip are three important files. One contains an electronic copy of the printed information on the passport’s photo page; the second holds the electronic image of the holder’s photo. The third is a security device which checks that the previous two files are not accessed and altered.
In order to get into the files, the computer needs an “electronic key”. This is the 24-digit code printed on the bottom line of the passport’s Machine Readable Zone. It is called the “MRZ key number”.
When an immigration official checks the passport by swiping it through his machine, it reveals the key which is then used to open up the electronic data on the microchip.
And this is the error that my system (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/04/19/biometrics/page4.html) overcomes.The official checks that the photograph and information printed on the passport match the details on the chip and the holder is allowed to pass in, or out, of the country.
The Government says the biometric chips are protected by “an advanced digital encryption technique”. In other words, without the MRZ key code it is impossible to steal the passport holder’s details if you do not have their travel document.
Yet it took us no time at all to unravel the crucial code, using a relatively simple computer software programme and a scanning device.
There is no extra utility in using RFID in a passport. This is simply vendor pushed garbage. A printed paper cryptographic public key system is far more secure than any RFID system.The Mail was helped by computer security consultant Adam Laurie, who advises public bodies and private companies on combating IT fraud. He discovered glaring weaknesses in the biometric passport’s security system.
The first flaw is that a hacker can try to access the chip as many times as he likes until he cracks the MRZ code. This is different to putting a pin number into a bank machine, where the security system refuses access after three wrong combinations are entered.
The second is that there are easily identifiable recurring patterns in the MRZ key codes issued. For example, the passport holder’s date of birth always features, as does the passport’s expiry date, which is ten years after the issue date.
These are schoolboy howlers. PGP signed documents do not have this vulnerability. The problem with PGP is that it costs nothing and vendors cant make a killing out of it.The Mail is not publishing full details of Miss Wood’s passport to protect her. We know exactly how Mr Laurie cracked the MRZ code but we are not going to reveal the process for security reasons.
Crucially, he only needed one new piece of information - Miss Wood’s date of birth.
In under two hours, the Mail had found this by checking the electoral roll, birth records and looking at genealogical sites on the Internet.
Miss Wood’s photo page soon popped up on Mr Laurie’s laptop screen. He had not needed to see her actual passport - the white envelope containing it remained unopened on the desk.
And RFID passports make all of this much easier.Crucially, some banks, including the Post Office, no longer require to see a full passport as proof of identity from a new customer opening an account. They ask for a photocopy of the photo page to be sent in the post instead.
This is not crucial. Opening a bank account is simply a service. Its your money. If you put your money in a shoe box under your bed or in a bank it makes no difference. You should be able to identify yourself by whatever means you like if it is YOUR money in YOUR account. Ahhhh journalists!.Miss Wood’s photo page could easily be copied and used for this purpose. Mr Laurie said: “I used public information and equipment that is legal. The software took me three days to write. It is incredibly easy to thieve data from the passports. It could be put onto another chip and implanted in a blank passport.”
Phil Booth, national co-ordinator of NO2ID, a group pressing the Government to abandon plans for identity cards, witnessed our experiment.
“This shows how easy it is to steal a person’s identity from the new passport without the innocent owner even knowing,” he said.
“The Government has repeatedly said this information is secure. You have just shown that it is not.”
AND SO?
And so, “you should not on any account carry one of these passports. You should not be interrogated in one of the new centres. Period”. THAT IS WHAT YOU NEEDED TO SAY!Last night a Home Office spokesman said: “We do not believe it would be possible to successfully forge a new passport by doing this.
“The security around the UK passport chip prevents anyone changing or deleting any of the data or information on the chip, which is what is required to successfully forge a passport.”
What they need to demonstrate now is that this too is a lie. But then again, it doesn’t matter how many times you do this sort of exercise; if people are going to line up to get these passports, then there is nothing that you can do about it. Four million have already been issued. Its bad news.
Americans do not have to be fingerprinted or interrogated to get new passports, which have RFID people who care are being instructed to use a hammer to destroy the RFID chip (http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/wireless/how-to-disable-the-rfid-chip-in-us-passports-224321.php). The passport is not invalidated if the chip is broken, so there is no reason for you not to hammer your passport, and roll it back to an acceptable document.
I wonder why they did not issue an instruction to the four million holders of bad UK passports to hammer the chips so that they do not work?
It beggars belief.

http://irdial.com/blogdial/?cat=8

[Einhander]

since when did happiness and security mean the same thing? to the casual observer surely happiness would be synonymous with liberty more so than security?

People are happy (although this is quite basic) when they are free from fear, want, or need which is security.

since when has liberty been a masonic virtue?

Since the freemasons hijacked America and taught people the liberty equals happiness.

[Sepp44]

People are happy (although this is quite basic) when they are free from fear, want, or need which is security.




Security is what these chaps are for......Shame they weren't on the London underground when those that we 'fear' blew up the londoners.So much for 'security' and cameras.
http://www.vhgrottweilers.com/images/sally_pic_1.jpg

Freedom is about owning one of these chaps without being stereotyped.I would want to own one of these rather than feel the need to be watched by big brother.Your perspectives are distorted einander.

[Einhander]

Freedom is about owning one of these chaps without being stereotyped.I would want to own one of these rather than feel the need to be watched by big brother.Your perspectives are distorted einander.

:rolleyes: On the topic of public security cameras, what do you find wrong with them? you're being watched anyway in public, so if you're not doing anything wrong what do you have to fear?

Anyway, how are my perspectives distorted? Freedom doesn't being happiness, that's bullshit. My personal happiness is brought from a sense of accomplishment brought about by purpose. The liberty we have is the liberty to go out and buy another cheeseburger and a pornographic magazine, such 'liberty' is a heroin on the west, and nothing but social degredation has become of it.

[shadow cup]

Liberty is a relative term. There comes a point where the next degree of freedom just doesn't give the self as much happiness as the previous notch did.

On the other hand the same applies to the taking away of freedoms and the notches by which happiness is knocked down.

Not all liberties are equal and some value certain freedoms more than others. For example, there is a difference between being monitored passing in front of a bank security camera and having a satelite track your movements. One has a clearly defined purpose to it while the other usually does not.

Likewise having one's words on a public forum monitored is a far cry from having one's personal chats or telephone conversations monitored.

-----

Furthermore the war on terror paranoia has not made the US or the UK a safer place. Infringing upon people's most personal privacies - such as via the "Patriot" act has, at best, only provided leads on suspects produced by the war on terror itself.

It has clearly failed and yet the governments continue to rachet the path to the corporate police state. They are ultimately racheting their own people up tight as they fear them.

Yes there are major issues within this field to be resolved, but the question is how to progress from this point?

[Marco Polo]

Tampering with an ID itself would render it useless and/ or mark it out to be a fraud. It is an access key more than a store for information itself. The data would be stored on many levels in something similar to an internet except with a very specific purpose and where each segment keeps track of all other segments.

As for thwarting hackers, I'm certain that it can be done in a controlled, closed, network.

For as far as key governing elements are concerned any attempt to access the database upon whatever level would be trackable by the individuals concerned, perhaps even be alerted to it as a matter of procedure. It would be a major headache plus they could be pinpointed if they attempted it (since they require an ID key to do so and an appropriate master terminal).

its not hackers and such that i fear. it is any government.

[Sepp44]

[quote]:rolleyes: On the topic of public security cameras, what do you find wrong with them? you're being watched anyway in public, so if you're not doing anything wrong what do you have to fear?
This as an old cliché.It has nothing to do with 'if you are doing nothing wrong what do you have to fear'.Britain has more surveillance camera's per head capita than any other nation in the world.Tell me what security it has brought to John public?Crime in the United Kingdom is at it's highest point ever.Less policeman,more cameras,less cost.Is this the answer?
Cameras are nought bought intrusive.You ,like many others are signing what civil liberties away today what you will need in the future.Does Britain go the same way as the USA ?That is,the Patriot act,erosion of civil liberty,the abolishment of Habeus Corpus and a host of other restrictive measures.Is this what you want or are you complacent with your 'want' and 'need' consumeristic burgers and porn?

Anyway, how are my perspectives distorted?


In that you want your cake and eat it but what you don't realise is that you don't have any cake in the first place.Your security has closed the bakers shop:cool:

Freedom doesn't being happiness, that's bullshit.

How would you know?What freedom have you ever had to lose?I would bet my bottom shekel that those Europeans that were under Soviet occupation for 50 years are a lot happier now with their freedoms than they were in 1989.One has to lose something in order to appreciate what one has.What have you ever lost...beside your porn mags?Are you free to do what you really want to do or do you just think you are?

My personal happiness is brought from a sense of accomplishment brought about by purpose.
Yeah,same as the other billions of sheeple.Get a job,go to work,buy what you're told to buy,or think you need and feel happy that you got the latest go faster car,boot stuffed full of porn mags and Sheilas drooling over your aerodynamic go faster stripes on your jalopy.Yeah,you are easily pleased.

The liberty we have is the liberty to go out and buy another cheeseburger and a pornographic magazine, such 'liberty' is a heroin on the west, and nothing but social degredation has become of it.
Tell that to the Afghan in Afghanistan next time he trundles down to McDonald's for his big cheese and big gulp in Helmand province.Bringing freedom to Afghanistan and Iraq ,neocon style really makes one feel secure doesn't it?You don't get it do you?Freedom to me is to be able to do what I want,when I want,where I want.By nature maybe I am a non conformist,but to get to the point where I think like this,I like to think I have done my share of conforming to the rules of society.I resent being told what I can and cannot do by big government.If I want to smoke,I will smoke.If I want to drink,I don't want to be told how much I can drink.If I want to doubt the holocaust story,I don't want to end up n prison for disagreeing.Get my drift?Your theories on security are pie in the sky put in place by a govt that cannot protect it's own citizens from the wogs on the street.I never wanted to go or think like the Americans but I suppose their is some practicality in their constitution .That is the right to defend yourself.If the govt of the day can't do it for me,then I want the freedom to be able to defend myself.Is that too much to ask?

[Einhander]

How would you know?What freedom have you ever had to lose?I would bet my bottom shekel that those Europeans that were under Soviet occupation for 50 years are a lot happier now with their freedoms than they were in 1989.?

Yeah, and I bet they are alot happier with the poverty a majority of them face now with the wonderful free markets.

One has to lose something in order to appreciate what one has.What have you ever lost...beside your porn mags?Are you free to do what you really want to do or do you just think you are

No, I'm pretty much free to do what I want within reason.

Yeah,same as the other billions of sheeple.Get a job,go to work,buy what you're told to buy,or think you need and feel happy that you got the latest go faster car,boot stuffed full of porn mags and Sheilas drooling over your aerodynamic go faster stripes on your jalopy.Yeah,you are easily pleased.

That's freedom. People are told what they want and then they vote for it. People want what their own self-interest currently desires and couldn't give a shit about the needs of the future.

Tell that to the Afghan in Afghanistan next time he trundles down to McDonald's for his big cheese and big gulp in Helmand province.Bringing freedom to Afghanistan and Iraq ,neocon style really makes one feel secure doesn't it?

Exactly. Freedom from want, need and fear are much more important than freedom to eat a cheeseburger.

You don't get it do you?Freedom to me is to be able to do what I want,when I want,where I want.

And that so called 'freedom' is what has destroyed our civilization. Such 'freedom' is only a ploy to distract and subdue people to bread and circuses.

By nature maybe I am a non conformist,but to get to the point where I think like this,I like to think I have done my share of conforming to the rules of society.I resent being told what I can and cannot do by big government.

If people don't have structure and order they are animals.

If I want to smoke,I will smoke.If I want to drink,I don't want to be told how much I can drink.

Really? Well, you get beaten all your life by an alcoholic father and then we'll see how much you believe people should be able to drink it up.

If I want to doubt the holocaust story,I don't want to end up n prison for disagreeing.Get my drift?

People shouldn't be able to mass influence others with a blatant lie. Holocaust denial is extremely dangerous in influencing vulnerable youth into such race hate by blaming others for societies problems.

Your theories on security are pie in the sky put in place by a govt that cannot protect it's own citizens from the wogs on the street.

Because every criminal is an ethnic :rolleyes:

But none the less, that's your wonderful freedom from horrible barbaric corporal/capital punishment which has allowed scum to run around the street stealing for drug money.

I never wanted to go or think like the Americans but I suppose their is some practicality in their constitution .That is the right to defend yourself.If the govt of the day can't do it for me,then I want the freedom to be able to defend myself.Is that too much to ask?

I completely support one's ability to defend themselves, here in Australia if you shoot a trespasser who intends to steal your property you go to jail yourself, or even further if they, the criminal hurt themselves within your property they have every right to sue, which actually happened a few years back in which the criminal won the case.

[Sepp44]

[QUOTE]Yeah, and I bet they are alot happier with the poverty a majority of them face now with the wonderful free markets.

Which 'majority' do you speak of which faces poverty?



No, I'm pretty much free to do what I want within reason.

So you feel quite secure in your freedoms?Are you happy with your freedoms?



That's freedom. People are told what they want and then they vote for it. People want what their own self-interest currently desires and couldn't give a shit about the needs of the future.

Ergo selfishness should not be confused with the choice of freedom over security.



Exactly. Freedom from want, need and fear are much more important than freedom to eat a cheeseburger.

But you miss the fundamental difference between your/our idea of Western freedoms and that of Islamic/Taleban ideas of freedom.It is you that wants the freedom to eat the cheeseburger but your freedom to eat said burger is paid for by the blood of others.Your security issue revolves around Western spin and neocon meddling.Before neocon meddling in Arab and Muslim affairs,European citizens never had a problem with Islamic fundamentalism or Jihadis.Europe had it's own form of terrorism namely and foremostly leftist anarchists and the like.The same people that in some cases sit in national govts and label those that do not agree with them.The security that our respective govts impose on us because of neocon meddling has resulted in a loss of our freedoms.Nanny states and big brother.You do not seem to grasp this.


And that so called 'freedom' is what has destroyed our civilization.

How so?You can lead the horse to water but you can't make him drink goes the saying.Nobody forces you to live a decadent lifestyle with all the trimmings it brings with it.Once again I say you want your cake and eat it.I too would like the same but I don't want to see an erosion of what little freedoms I have eroded by security issues that alien govts have brought upon me.John Howard and Rupert Murdoch are two antipodean exports I can do without thank you very much.

Such 'freedom' is only a ploy to distract and subdue people to bread and circuses.

Therefore I deduce you don't want your bread and circus.Therefore I deduce you don't want your games either.You will become a number,a slave to the system.



If people don't have structure and order they are animals.

You miss my point.I have lived by structure and order.I don't need some snot nosed politician telling me how to live my life.I don't need camera surveillance 24 hours a day because the govt is failing in it's duties.The problem as I see it as I am not free to be left alone.
Every society has structure and order relative to their needs.It's called a pecking order in chicken speak.What may suit you in Australia may not suit the indians of the Amazon.Does that make them animals in your eyes?There must be limits set on structure and order otherwise your existence willbe that of one in a police state.Burma might be ok for you.



Really? Well, you get beaten all your life by an alcoholic father and then we'll see how much you believe people should be able to drink it up.

I speak metaphorically einander.


People shouldn't be able to mass influence others with a blatant lie.

Which lie do you speak of?

Holocaust denial is extremely dangerous in influencing vulnerable youth into such race hate by blaming others for societies problems.

That is utter piffle.Why can't the holocaust be questioned if there are aspects of doubt.Questioning the holocaust is the only part of history which is deemed criminal and punishable with prison.Who has such power to wield such ungodly punishments for speaking ones mind?What do you define as 'race hate'?



Because every criminal is an ethnic :rolleyes:


Statistically speaking in the USA,ethnics arethe majority.In the United Kingdom,the statistics are buried or distorted because f political correctness.Ignorance is not bliss and neither is it a defence.Your response does not address the question of the need to have so much surveillance.Australia has a good solution nes pas?Stick all the ethnic troubles into territories 20 times the size of Britain.

But none the less, that's your wonderful freedom from horrible barbaric corporal/capital punishment which has allowed scum to run around the street stealing for drug money.

No dear einander,it is not my freedom that allows 'scum' to run riot.It is the govt,loony leftists and Zionist twats that pen race legislation that have created the freedoms for the wogs to run riot and the white trash to be penalised for race hate speech.You speak with double tongue einander.



I completely support one's ability to defend themselves, here in Australia if you shoot a trespasser who intends to steal your property you go to jail yourself, or even further if they, the criminal hurt themselves within your property they have every right to sue, which actually happened a few years back in which the criminal won the case.

Security!The price of your freedom.No good when you're dead.

[IMPERIUM]

Norman, About the Credit Card part of the Imperium ID Card, Will be any money in the Imperium like Coins and paper money? Or only ID Card. JB

I thought I was quite clear.
There will not be any cash around within the whole Imperium.
All transactions will be effected through the ID card.

This eliminates tax evasion :10% VAT will be charged throughout most Regions.
10% of 10%VAT of one billion Whites, trading amongst themselves, will maintain the Imperium:
Elite Army, certain projects relating to Spirituality, genetic research of the root race, etc.,

ID will curb 99% of crime - of course, not murder for passion etc.,
ID is convenient, easy to carry, to verify information upon oneself (eg health info).
ID will, most importantly, rid us of all non-Europids within our midst.

Imperium
0712

[shadow cup]

And that so called 'freedom' is what has destroyed our civilization. Such 'freedom' is only a ploy to distract and subdue people to bread and circuses.


Civilization is nothing more than the existence of a system sufficiently suitable for the organization of multiple individuals to act as parts of a coherent whole over time.

By this definition (and it is not beyond challenge) the only freedoms that pose a threat to civilization are those that break the bonds of solidarity between the individuals forming it. Therefore the only active freedoms (liberties) that weaken society are those that infringe upon the passive freedoms (rights) of others. Examples of such include posing a threat, conditional or otherwise, accumulating resources in a greedy fashion (i.e. a fashion that goes far beyond what one needs), and spying upon others.


If people don't have structure and order they are animals.


I disagree. Leaving aside the fact that it is only humans who determine themselves to be something other than what they classify the rest of the species to be, there are "animals" out there that display obvious traits of structure. Actually there is something wrong with structure being deemed a prerequisite to transcending of the animal class. I cannot put my finger on it yet.


Really? Well, you get beaten all your life by an alcoholic father and then we'll see how much you believe people should be able to drink it up.


With due respect, there is a vast difference between tanking up on alcohol and committing actions under the influence. Why not treat the action itself as a crime and work from there?

Also I would pose the thought that one of the reasons why an alcoholic father might beat a child is due to a lack of will, or ability to stop drinking when enough is enough. Such is addiction... which I feel to be a state similar to unsoundness of mind.

Some freedoms are excessive but they are deemed excessive due to logical and ethical considerations.


People shouldn't be able to mass influence others with a blatant lie. Holocaust denial is extremely dangerous in influencing vulnerable youth into such race hate by blaming others for societies problems.


Holocaust denial and enquiry are only as dangerous as the legislative shackles against the permissability of such. The legislation itself is dangerous in my opinion as it perfectly mimicks the big kid on the block who holds one hand behind his back, claims that he has nothing in it and threatens to thump you with the other hand if you should dare question his word.

In fact, this state of affairs fuels actions and standpoints deemed "anti-semitic" in such societies. I count myself amongst the number who would hold very little interest in the holocaust (and there are plenty of other things that I'd rather dedicate my energies to) were the consequences upon today's societies not so very clear. The German kids themselves (the children of the children (of the children?) of War-time Germany) are being force fed the holocaust at a tender age, effectively taught to hate themselves and take on guilt that is not their own, holocaust memorials are being placed on public transport (a place for the living, not the dead (?)), reparations have flowed out to the tune of some 60-odd million (or was it billion? I forget) and part of a world where other countries of the allied forces, including the USA, have been dealt the blame card ad nausium for 'failing to blow up' railroads, auschwitz, etc.

One thing that I am very certain of is that jailing individuals for 3-5+ years for thought, speech and expression crimes is not going to make such individuals 'see the light'. They will either fall to the intimidation, believing the crucifix too heavy a burden for them to carry, or they would be hardened in their resolve that there is something insideously inaccurate about the propoganda that we take to be history today for which countless millions of persons have suffered and shall yet suffer (Germans being just one major target of suffering).

When the big kid on the block opens his left hand for all to see and lowers his right fist, then there can be a beginning to any potential for legitimacy. Until that day comes, individuals have to take down the big kid or fall trying...

[shadow cup]

ID will, most importantly, rid us of all non-Europids within our midst.

Imperium
0712

How would an ID enable the ejection of non-Europids?
Upon a Europe-wide scale, how urgent is such an ejection?

Like you mentioned, crimes would drastically reduce.

...

.......

Actually, what if an RFID chip were to be included with no personal details? Also, what if an ID card allowed for threatened individuals to pulse a vicinity? While utterly useless to those aiming at identity theft such could pose a useful tool for law enforcement as the sole data retrieved is unique to each individual.

Why? If a potentially violent person is pulsed then everything from there on could be linked to that individual. It would even be ethically sound in the bathroom since its nothing more than a code received by a sensor.

Well thats just a thought (especially interested in Sepp's thoughts on this variant (without DOB, pic, name, etc. info - only a unique code) ^_~).

[Neverwinter]

Actually, what if an RFID chip were to be included with no personal details? Also, what if an ID card allowed for threatened individuals to pulse a vicinity? While utterly useless to those aiming at identity theft such could pose a useful tool for law enforcement as the sole data retrieved is unique to each individual.

Why? If a potentially violent person is pulsed then everything from there on could be linked to that individual. It would even be ethically sound in the bathroom since its nothing more than a code received by a sensor.

Well thats just a thought (especially interested in Sepp's thoughts on this variant (without DOB, pic, name, etc. info - only a unique code) ^_~).Sounds so eerily similar to the 'Number of the Beast'.
:eek:

[Neverwinter]

Sounds so eerily similar to the 'Number of the Beast'.
:eek:Ah...here it is for our eyes and minds to decipher:

Source (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Revelation+13&version=49)
Revelation 13

16And he causes all, (AU (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Revelation+13&version=49#cen-NASB-30926AU))the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves, to be given a (AV (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Revelation+13&version=49#cen-NASB-30926AV))mark on their right hand or on their forehead,

17and he provides that no one will be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the (AW (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Revelation+13&version=49#cen-NASB-30927AW))mark, either (AX (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Revelation+13&version=49#cen-NASB-30927AX))the name of the beast or (AY (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Revelation+13&version=49#cen-NASB-30927AY))the number of his name.

Am I the only one who sees a similarity here???
:confused:

[shadow cup]

I do see some similarity.

Am I therefore the AntiChrist? :D

...

Seriously though... there do seem to be similarities but there are also differences. :c) I do not deem it acceptable to obligate the assimilation of "marks" or chips or other such ID within the bodies of individuals (if an individual wishes to - then that is that individual's choice - I certainly wouldn't opt for it).

I furthermore remain to fully comprehend the role of barter, which cannot be stamped out (not that it should, though some factor or regulation might not be amiss), short of the registration of products, therefore excluding them from the barter cycle (as are cars, houses and other things precluded today).

[IMPERIUM]

How would an ID enable the ejection of non-Europids?
Upon a Europe-wide scale, how urgent is such an ejection?

Non-Europids will not be given the Imperium ID card.
Hence, they will not be able to buy or sell, board a train or bus, get a job...
They should starve in six weeks flat.

We will dump them all by the thousands onto old, rusty tankers and just beach them on the African coasts, the Far East or wherever.
They will not be our problem any more - good riddance!
For those who can afford it - they can buy a one-way, plane ticket back to their pest holes.

And our lands will return to Europeans - to live in harmony with themselves.
In harmony within the safety and strength offered by a White World Wide Imperium.
An Imperium of Regions and Peoples : Imperium Europa!

Imperium
0801

[Neverwinter]

I do see some similarity.

Am I therefore the AntiChrist? :D

...

Seriously though... there do seem to be similarities but there are also differences. :c) I do not deem it acceptable to obligate the assimilation of "marks" or chips or other such ID within the bodies of individuals (if an individual wishes to - then that is that individual's choice - I certainly wouldn't opt for it).

I furthermore remain to fully comprehend the role of barter, which cannot be stamped out (not that it should, though some factor or regulation might not be amiss), short of the registration of products, therefore excluding them from the barter cycle (as are cars, houses and other things precluded today).Well, no doubt that this will bring controversy so it makes sense to hash out this coming controversy. Definately interested in the views of those on this forum... I love history and ancient literature, as many here do, so I know the basics of the Bible since I have read through it a few times. Let the discussions begin and thank you SC for a response .
:D;)

[Sepp44]

I've never read the bible and don't intend to.When I was in the infants,we had Peter & Jane .I'm a goddam pagan.My Gods were drawing their pensions while Jesus was still getting splinters in his arse.Ha! .......:D(btt)

[shadow cup]

Well, no doubt that this will bring controversy so it makes sense to hash out this coming controversy. Definately interested in the views of those on this forum... I love history and ancient literature as many here do so I know the basics of the Bible since I have read through it a few times. Let the discussions begin and thank you SC for a response .
:D;)
No worries. I just wasn't sure what to make of the earlier response. :c)

But sure. Why should the AntiChrist be beyond discussion? ^_~ Lets do it.

Within the boundaries of this topic of course.

[Neverwinter]

I've never read the bible and don't intend to.When I was in the infants,we had Peter & Jane .I'm a goddam pagan.My Gods were drawing their pensions while Jesus was still getting splinters in his arse.Ha! .......:D(btt)Thank you for that comment!!!
:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
The laughing made my chest hurt!

[Sepp44]

No worries. I just wasn't sure what to make of the earlier response. :c)

But sure. Why should the AntiChrist be beyond discussion? ^_~ Lets do it.

Within the boundaries of this topic of course.

The anti christ is dead!He done himself in whilst taking drugs and playing with guns.His name was Adolf Hitler or so Nostrodamus said in his quatrains.Is there another antichrist besides those scumbags in Tel Aviv?:cool:

[Sepp44]

Thank you for that comment!!!
:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
The laughing made my chest hurt!

I'm bored(dft)

[Neverwinter]

The anti christ is dead!He done himself in whilst taking drugs and playing with guns.His name was Adolf Hitler or so Nostrodamus said in his quatrains.Is there another antichrist besides those scumbags in Tel Aviv?:cool:The supremacist Jews match the anti-christ label for sure. Their hatred for Jesus of Nazareth is unrivalled.
:eek::D

[Sepp44]

The supremacist Jews match the anti-christ label for sure. Their hatred for Jesus of Nazareth is unrivalled.
:eek::D

They are(the Jews) and have always been Christ haters.Their hatred of the biblical figure of Jesus is unrivalled upto this day.Me,I just make light of the bible and it's contents.I couldn't give a hoot about Jesus but you'll never get me spitting on a priest or the crucifix.That is the EXCLUSIVE domain of the yids.(btt)(btt)(btt)(btt)(btt)

[Marco Polo]

an interesting video on the british police state.

its dispatches by channel 4 so its worth watching.

[Sepp44]

Sunday, 27th July 2008
Stolen identity?

Caroline Muscat
http://www.timesofmalta.com/media/serve/20080727---loc_09.jpg
Project Stork aims to achieve a pan - European recognition of electronic IDs by 2010.


As electronic identification systems are being introduced to citizens around the world, concerns have been voiced on the security of personal data, ID theft and fraud as well as the use of personal information in terms of access given to third parties. The containment of personal information in centralised government databases, which allows information to be shared across borders, is a primary concern.
Last month, UK Shadow Home Secretary David Davis resigned, saying he opposed the "creation of a database state opening up our private lives to the prying eyes of official snoopers and exposing our personal data to careless civil servants and criminal hackers".
The Maltese government is planning to have electronic identification systems by the start of next year. A Bill is under discussion in Parliament that would see the introduction of e-ID cards - an electronic replacement of our present ID cards. Biometric passports are envisaged by the end of the year.
People attempting to renew ID cards now are already being turned away unless the need is absolutely necessary. From next year, we will have new e-IDs in our pockets.
Answering questions on the need for such e-IDs and their benefits, Investments Ministry head of secretariat Manuel Delia said: "Networked information systems give access to information on demand; the key here is storing data centrally and ensure its validity."
This in itself does not clarify the need for Maltese citizens to carry electronic identification systems. The advantage that Mr Delia highlights can be met by converting data already held by the government into digital format so that it can be networked and shared. So why are we being given new IDs?
"The e-ID cards will be able to act as secure authentication systems (as required for online transactions)," Mr Delia explained. This will be possible through the chip that each new ID card will contain.
However, e-ID chipcards linked to centralised databases are contentious for several reasons. Once such a system is in place, it can contain any amount of information on an individual ranging from health records to financial statements. It can store all kinds of data and be linked to other systems. Moreover, all cardholder actions and movements with the e-ID chip card can be electronically traced and linked - as they are through credit cards. The difference with credit cards is that people may opt to use them or not whereas the ownership and use of an e-ID is compulsory.
Transaction-generated data trails from such cards can readily be picked up by computers, stored in databases, searched-for patterns of activity, processed to distil profiles, and merged and matched with census data, credit report data, postal codes, car registrations, birth certificates and so on.
Transactions need not be monitored in real-time; once stored, data trails are permanent for the record and can be examined at any time.
It is for these reasons that concerns about privacy have dominated debates in Europe and beyond wherever similar systems are being introduced.
Plans to introduce ID cards have met with protest in the US, the UK, Canada, New Zealand, and Australia, among others. In these countries, opposition revolves around the idea of an ID card itself, which is an unacceptable concept due to privacy concerns. The fact that the new ID cards will be electronic has only served to make the issue more controversial.
After the loss of CDs in the UK containing the details of 25 million recipients of child benefit, the issue of digital data has become hotter than ever and exposed the vulnerability of centralised databases containing sensitive personal information.
A growing number of hi-tech firms say that far from improving security or cutting down fraud, the cards could actually create security risks. Microsoft underlined the allure of confidential information to criminals warning that the ID card posed a huge security risk that could increase the likelihood of confidential personal information falling into the hands of hackers and criminals.
For the introduction of electronic identification systems in Malta, Mr Delia said that concerns regarding the possible loss or theft of an individual's ID card had been considered.
"The ID card is reported as missing and its functionality is disabled. If it takes the card holder a long time to realise that they have lost the card this in itself poses no major threat as the card will be protected by a further security layer such as a PIN or password."
He dismissed the idea of public opposition and emphasised the added security that such a system would offer: "The government, through the introduction of the National Identity Management Systems, is stepping up the security with which it treats personal information already held on government information systems... People here voluntarily (disclose) their ID card number understanding that doing this facilitates transactions. But the current safeguards for privacy and data protection will remain in full effect."
Mr Delia added: "The data held by the government about a person will not be any more or less available to other parts of the government simply because of the introduction of an e-ID Card."
However, the fact remains that our personal data could be made more accessible to third parties.
Project Stork was set up within the EU with the aim of achieving a pan-European recognition of electronic IDs. European ministers, as well as some non-EU countries, such as Iceland, set themselves the political objective to reach mutual recognition and interoperability of electronic identities by 2010 in the Manchester Declaration adopted in November 2005.
Project Stork, according to its architects, is expected to help bridge the gap between the different e-ID systems currently in use, leading to a de facto standard for interoperability in e-IDs. The deadline for this is 2010, when the EU's European e-ID Management Framework comes into force.
The reason why the EU wants electronic identification systems in all member states containing data that can be read by the different systems in each of its countries is that the information can then be shared.
Mr Delia says that "Malta is following the progress of the Stork project and the e-ID card will keep up with the pace of pan-European interoperability".
It is therefore highly probable that Maltese citizens will have less and less control over who has access to their personal data and for what purposes it will be used.
Numerous questions - for which there are so far few clear answers - still have to be addressed in a transparent public discussion. The introduction of electronic identification documents requires planning and consideration of their implications at all levels, from issue through to control level.
Citizens should be able to understand the system so that they can identify its problems, criticise it, and ultimately control it. This has been the main demand voiced by citizens in Europe and other parts of the world where emphasis is made on the need for more comprehensive public debates that once more focus on a transparent government rather than a transparent citizen.
http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20080727/local/stolen-identity

[Sepp44]

Sunday, 27th July 2008
Biometric ID cards

Evan Camilleri, Fgura
The government is planning to introduce biometric identity cards and there seems to have been no discussion about the issue.
Are people prepared to have a biometric identity card? Do people really know what it is? Will Big Brother watch every step we take? How secure are our personal data?
What kind of biometric data will the card contain? Is this information really necessary, or are we exaggerating just to be one of the first in the world to be 'technology advanced' but compromising our identity security in the process? This kind of ID card will dramatically reduce security and privacy and increase the risk of identity theft. Citizens in certain countries are still debating whether to introduce an ID card, let alone a biometric version.
May I opt not to have one, without being discriminated against? People need more information.
http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20080727/letters/biometric-id-cards



Will Big Brother watch every step we take?



I don't know about 'big brother' but Verint ,the Israelis and AmeriKans will.

[etoile noir]

how refreshing! people are at last waking up to the reality that yes, every step we make is monitored, recorded and stored. we're all treated like criminals. all we need now is some dog tag or a chip inserted up our arse as soon as we're born :mad: