Gaddafi Talks Economics.

[Gladiator]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070302/wl_nm/libya_gaddafi_dc_3

[Marco Polo]

i dont like him but he is right.


SEBHA, Libya (Reuters) - Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi (http://search.news.yahoo.com/search/news/?p=Muammar+Gaddafi) criticized the world financial system as a dictatorship based on fear on Friday but said Libya's only pragmatic choice after sanctions was to accept the unfair reality of world trade.

Speaking in a rare public debate with Western scholars, Gaddafi added Libya, whose press is state controlled, accepted the Internet and international satellite television because it showed Libyans what he called the weakness of Western democracy.
"The prevailing powers today are in the hands of those who have economic and military power which puts fear in others. They can make you starve. They can close the doors for your exports of raw materials such as coffee or oil," Gaddafi said.

"This is an international dictatorship that is being practiced against people, especially poor people," he said of conditions imposed by Western aid donors on poor countries.
"Those who threaten you with military power or with the (U.N.) Security Council are the people who are controlling the world and if you go against the tide you might be destroyed."
"The Libyans ... realized this very well. From this realistic and pragmatic point of view Libya has improved its relations with the world," he told the debate, intended to mark the 30th anniversary of his declaration of a Jamahiriyah or state of the masses.
The two-hour discussion was held in a small room in front of a small group of invited journalists in the southern desert town of Sebha where Gaddafi made the proclamation on March 2, 1977.
The system of town hall meetings is seen by critics as cover for authoritarian rule. Admirers say the system guarantees ordinary people a direct say in ruling themselves.
Gaddafi, shunned internationally for much of his rule because the West accused him of terrorism, improved his standing in 2003 when Libya accepted civil responsibility for the bombing of a passenger plane over Lockerbie, Scotland.
Months later Tripoli announced it would abandon its weapons of mass destruction programs. The announcement drew praise from London and Washington and in September 2004, President Bush (http://search.news.yahoo.com/search/news/?p=President+Bush) formally ended a U.S. trade embargo.
In an interview with the BBC after the meeting, Gaddafi complained that Libya had not been properly compensated for renouncing nuclear weapons and said that as a result countries like Iran (http://search.news.yahoo.com/search/news/?p=Iran) and North Korea (http://search.news.yahoo.com/search/news/?p=North+Korea) would not follow his lead.
Dressed in sweeping brown African robes and occasionally holding a copy of his 1970s Green Book of political philosophy, Gaddafi said Libya accepted that economic transformation could come in the shape of globalization even though, he said, it was driven by powerful financial interests.
He added: "Libya is part of this changing world which is dominated by globalization. ... The IMF ( International Monetary Fund (http://search.news.yahoo.com/search/news/?p=International+Monetary%0AFund)) and the World Bank (http://search.news.yahoo.com/search/news/?p=World+Bank) impose very harsh and unsuitable conditions on poor countries.
"We can criticize them but we cannot be outside those institutions. It's impossible at the present time."
The veteran Libyan leader reiterated his view that representative democracy was the dictatorship of the 51 percent.
"51 percent -- this is not democracy. This means that 49 percent is against the winner," he told U.S. political scientist Benjamin Barber and British sociologist Anthony Giddens in a discussion moderated by British journalist David Frost.
His country of about 6 million would keep Jamahiriyah because it gave more say to ordinary people than Western polls, which, he added, was a system enfeebled by voter apathy.

[Gladiator]

He got what he asked for. That's how the world is and has been.

[oebalus]

Gadaffi used to indulge in wild and sonorous barkings in the old days. He was not afraid to use unorthodox words and sentences, that is until the day when the bombers visited him in 1986. After the bombers left, Gadaffi the heroe, withdrew into his well padded cocoon and zipped his mouth for ever after. He sems to have learnt the lesson of not messing with the others ,if he wanted to keep soul and body together. A gas bag from the desert , a craven coward that had its day and its hiding. His good fortune is to be sitting on a platfrom of black gold.

[Eurodip]

Gadaffi used to indulge in wild and sonorous barkings in the old days. He was not afraid to use unorthodox words and sentences, that is until the day when the bombers visited him in 1986. After the bombers left, Gadaffi the heroe, withdrew into his well padded cocoon and zipped his mouth for ever after. He sems to have learnt the lesson of not messing with the others ,if he wanted to keep soul and body together. A gas bag from the desert , a craven coward that had its day and its hiding. His good fortune is to be sitting on a platfrom of black gold.

After the bombers left, Ghaddafi left Malta, where he'd been hiding, and returned to Libya. A quick visit to Verdala Palace and the underground chambers, if you can arrange it, will provide a fascinating insight into 1980s Maltese history. Damn, it should be on the tourist trail.

[Gladiator]

After the bombers left, Ghaddafi left Malta, where he'd been hiding, and returned to Libya. A quick visit to Verdala Palace and the underground chambers, if you can arrange it, will provide a fascinating insight into 1980s Maltese history. Damn, it should be on the tourist trail.
Are you saying that KMB besides alerting the Libyans that the American eagle was on its way to drop its load, he was given refuge here in Malta too?

[Eurodip]

Are you saying that KMB besides alerting the Libyans that the American eagle was on its way to drop its load, he was given refuge here in Malta too?

Yes. Ghaddafi came to Malta on several unofficial visits, which were never announced. He probably thought the bombing in 1986 would be followed by an invasion or an attempt to remove him from power.

Of course I wasn't there, so I got this info second-hand, from a foreign source though. The communications equipment in Verdala might have been removed since I visited. At any rate it confirms that Libyan intel was established and operating in Malta quite openly (at that time Verdala wasn't an official Presidential residence). Sometimes I wonder what sort of game Mintoff thought he was playing. It's not as if we got much in return. And then we wonder why the Yanks and the Israelis hate us.

[Marco Polo]

Yes. Ghaddafi came to Malta on several unofficial visits, which were never announced. He probably thought the bombing in 1986 would be followed by an invasion or an attempt to remove him from power.

Of course I wasn't there, so I got this info second-hand, from a foreign source though. The communications equipment in Verdala might have been removed since I visited. At any rate it confirms that Libyan intel was established and operating in Malta quite openly (at that time Verdala wasn't an official Presidential residence). Sometimes I wonder what sort of game Mintoff thought he was playing. It's not as if we got much in return. And then we wonder why the Yanks and the Israelis hate us.

they hated us because we didnt play their games. they now have a puppet government in the present administration.

[oebalus]

It sounds highly implausible and improbable that Gadaffi was hiding in Malta during the bombing. However who can believe the rodent main stream media ?

If one rakes one's memory well, it is recorded that soon after the bombing raid Gadaffi was interviewed on a TV coverage. He looked ashen faced , sounded incoherent, and was barely able to mumble a few inanities, unintelligible comments. The Tv coverage lasted a few seconds. Was he being interviewed in his hideout in Malta ? He is a very consummate actor if he pretended to have been traumatized by the earth shaking bombs whilst in safety in Malta, or a double was being used ?.

We must also remember that her adopted daughter was killed in the bombing and two of her young sons were seriously wounded. Were his siblings also hiding in Malta with him ? Or were they left behind as a decoy ? A lack of functional intelligence is shown by Gadaffi if he disregarded his siblings by leaving them behind while the craven coward made his way to safety in Malta. A wise man would have taken his most immediately family with him too.

[etoile noir]

A wise man would have taken his most immediately family with him too.

not that implausible really. besides, for gaddafi to take his family to safety he would have needed a 747, or the more recent - and miserably failed - airbus 380.

much like the bin ladens did right after 9/11 when no one but no one except the bin ladens could use air travel.

[Eurodip]

not that implausible really. besides, for gaddafi to take his family to safety he would have needed a 747, or the more recent - and miserably failed - airbus 380.

much like the bin ladens did right after 9/11 when no one but no one except the bin ladens could use air travel.

I don't know, chaps (and ladies). I got the info from an, er, shall we say, ex civil servant who was making trips to Malta throughout the Mintoff-KMB period. Other than that, I don't know. If we only had journalists with some brains, they could ask the question point blank when interviewing certain ambassadors, instead of talking about balls (I meant receptions).

[Marco Polo]

not that implausible really. besides, for gaddafi to take his family to safety he would have needed a 747, or the more recent - and miserably failed - airbus 380.

much like the bin ladens did right after 9/11 when no one but no one except the bin ladens could use air travel.

you dont half believe some bullshit etoile.

the a380 is nowhere near failed and you have merely swallowed pro-US propaganda hook, line and sinker.

Airbus suffers from socialism syndrome ie. the workers are spoilt (esp. the french ones). what should have happened is that airbus should have restructured before building the a380 but socialist politics won. the a380 will go ahead despite propaganda and has merely been delayed.

boeing is one of americas chief exporters and lack any innovation, they make a fuss over their 'dreamliner' which is supposed to be really fast but it still does not break the sound barrier. concorde did that over 30 years ago but america did its best to fuck that effort by not allowing pan american flights and thus its US plane destroying capability.

the war is renewed with airbus destroying boeing market share these past years to become the world largest plane maker. airbus are now creating a plane to DESTROY one of boeings top planes: the 747, they want as much as possible to harm its reputation and i am damn sure they bribe airlines to drop their orders for the plane to make it a loss maker for airbus.

if the a380 were to start on its flights and the obvious economies of scale start bearing fruit what will happen to boeing?

airbus needs to get its shit sorted out asap and hurry its ass up. it also really needs to get some good propagandists working lest more people swallow the bait and its plane does end up getting dropped by many more airlines.

[Marco Polo]

I don't know, chaps (and ladies). I got the info from an, er, shall we say, ex civil servant who was making trips to Malta throughout the Mintoff-KMB period. Other than that, I don't know. If we only had journalists with some brains, they could ask the question point blank when interviewing certain ambassadors, instead of talking about balls (I meant receptions).

receptions are talked about to keep the people 'informed' (read they dazzle them with useless nonsense on who was there and and reveal no real news).

[etoile noir]

you dont half believe some bullshit etoile.
right. believe this.

The US Fedex freight and messenger service scrapped its order for 10 A380F cargo planes in November after Airbus announced a two-year delay in deliveries.

Its competitor UPS said last week that it was also considering cancelling an order for 10 planes this year while the International Lease Finance Corp. (ILFC), which handles aircraft leases, scrapped the order for five cargo planes and chose instead five passenger jets.

Airbus, created in 1970 as a European industrial initiative to compete with Boeing in the strategically important airline sector, was long held up as an example of European cooperation and vision. source (http://www.turkishpress.com/news.asp?id=164883). just one of many places with the story ....

airbus needs to get its shit sorted out asap and hurry its ass up. it also really needs to get some good propagandists working lest more people swallow the bait and its plane does end up getting dropped by many more airlines.

yes they need to sort out their shit - big time. 2 year delays on friggin cargo ships is hardly "european vision". the chinks can do far better than that let alone boeing!

[Eurodip]

receptions are talked about to keep the people 'informed' (read they dazzle them with useless nonsense on who was there and and reveal no real news).

As Marie Benoît would say, "It's all about glamour, darling!"

[Marco Polo]

right. believe this.

The US Fedex freight and messenger service scrapped its order for 10 A380F cargo planes in November after Airbus announced a two-year delay in deliveries.

Its competitor UPS said last week that it was also considering cancelling an order for 10 planes this year while the International Lease Finance Corp. (ILFC), which handles aircraft leases, scrapped the order for five cargo planes and chose instead five passenger jets.

Airbus, created in 1970 as a European industrial initiative to compete with Boeing in the strategically important airline sector, was long held up as an example of European cooperation and vision. source (http://www.turkishpress.com/news.asp?id=164883). just one of many places with the story ....



yes they need to sort out their shit - big time. 2 year delays on friggin cargo ships is hardly "european vision". the chinks can do far better than that let alone boeing!

note that it is mainly companies under a heavy US influence. Aibus needs better propagandists.

it is part of a trade war letty. airbus has been beating the crap out of boeing for years, this can be a deciding blow that AMERICA cant really afford to take.

just look at the size and its corresponding efficiencies. one of my heroes; isambard kingdom brunel did the same with ships 150 years ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isambard_Kingdom_Brunel

and more importantly, the a380 of its day: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Great_Western

the a380 works in the european spirit as the 747 and the great western did in their day.

[Marco Polo]

also etoie, i think airbus have shelved the cargo version for now anyway.

[etoile noir]

seems like they did : http://www.servihoo.com/Aujourdhui/kinews/afp_details.php?id=154678&CategoryID=47

[Marco Polo]

i know. usual bullshit strikers. they can keep them on and then bring down the entire company then. linkola comes to mind here.

the usual political whores are out i see.

they should have done all this before building the a380. it will suceed regardless as the stakes are far too high for the eu big boys. concorde was far less viable and flew. the a380 has vastly more advantages over any current planes especially with china and its hundreds of millions surging ahead.

with a bit of luck the political whoring will come as an advantage.