Malta Drydock Still Bleeding Red!

[Gladiator]

http://www.timesofmalta.com/core/article.php?id=252293
Like what I said, shut the place down and turn it into a night club! Anbd this inspit of having 600 foreign workers

[Marco Polo]

http://www.timesofmalta.com/core/article.php?id=252293
Like what I said, shut the place down and turn it into a night club! Anbd this inspit of having 600 foreign workers

imo it depends on wages. if the drydocks pays an incredible amount of wages and these wages are being spent in malta then its not as bad as the figure suggests. if however the wages paid arent much more than the amount it lost then it needs to close.

i think gov is taking the easier option and waiting for retirees to cut the workforce for them. dont expect the balls of thatcher from a local government.

[Gladiator]

imo it depends on wages. if the drydocks pays an incredible amount of wages and these wages are being spent in malta then its not as bad as the figure suggests. if however the wages paid arent much more than the amount it lost then it needs to close.

i think gov is taking the easier option and waiting for retirees to cut the workforce for them. dont expect the balls of thatcher from a local government.

Your economic logic sound very much like Vodoo economics Marco Polo!

[Marco Polo]

Your economic logic sound very much like Vodoo economics Marco Polo!

no, it is how one conducts things if one wants to keep thousands of workers i a job, paying taxes and thus moving the economy as opposed to simply having them unemployed and contributing nothing.

although i am a staunch capitalist profits arent everything. how many people are dependent on the drydocks either directly or indirectly?

[Gladiator]

no, it is how one conducts things if one wants to keep thousands of workers i a job, paying taxes and thus moving the economy as opposed to simply having them unemployed and contributing nothing.

although i am a staunch capitalist profits arent everything. how many people are dependent on the drydocks either directly or indirectly?

What they pay out in wages the government doesn't get it back. 8.8 million liri is a lot of capital to dish out. If the government invests that kind of money somewhere else the return will be higher than what the wages of a few thousand workers bring. Look at the Big Auto makers. They lost huge sums of money. Thousands are being laid off. What are you going to tell your share holders when there is no dividen nor profit. Oh no the wages we pay to the workers will be just as good for the economy as they will spend it somewhere else!:rolleyes: Come on.

[Eurodip]

What they pay out in wages the government doesn't get it back. 8.8 million liri is a lot of capital to dish out. If the government invests that kind of money somewhere else the return will be high than what the wages of a few thousand workers bring. Look at the Big Auto makers. they lost huge sums of money. Thousands are being laid off. What are you going to tell your share holders when theire is no dividen nor profit. Oh no the wages we pay to the workers will be just as good for the economy as they will spend it somewhere else!:rolleyes: Come on.

Exactly, and in this case, it's even worse, because the shareholders are the citizens of Malta, and they've no say on the executive board. It would be cheaper to close down the whole thing, lay everyone off, and keep paying their present salaries.

[Marco Polo]

What they pay out in wages the government doesn't get it back. 8.8 million liri is a lot of capital to dish out. If the government invests that kind of money somewhere else the return will be high than what the wages of a few thousand workers bring. Look at the Big Auto makers. they lost huge sums of money. Thousands are being laid off. What are you going to tell your share holders when theire is no dividen nor profit. Oh no the wages we pay to the workers will be just as good for the economy as they will spend it somewhere else!:rolleyes: Come on.

do you know how many times the government takes a cut out of any economic transaction?

now the wage earner of say 6k is going to have tax and NI deducted from his wage. from that wage whatever is spent the gov takes the very minimum of 18.5% vat. (when i was involved in importing things we were also taxed on importation and the gov made double the amount of money as we did.) now the money that goes to the company where the worker has bought the stuff from has to pay income tax and god knows what else in tax. he also has his own expenses as a business that generates even more commerce

sooner or later everyones money is spent so the government gets almost all back. if the docks close the trickle effect through the economy stops and less commerce (tax) is created and more people are laid off as there are no sales

if he were on benefits there is very little the gov will get back. if the entire dry dock were unemployed could we expect a very substantial effect on the whole economy through trickle down effects.

im not saying the drydocks should continue to be funded but 8.5 million is not as bad as it sounds. what is worse is corruption with its fruits being sent to some FOREIGN bank account.

think about it a little

[Marco Polo]

Exactly, and in this case, it's even worse, because the shareholders are the citizens of Malta, and they've no say on the executive board. It would be cheaper to close down the whole thing, lay everyone off, and keep paying their present salaries.

i doubt it.

if that would be the case then the option should be explored

[Eurodip]

i doubt it.

if that would be the case then the option should be explored
I presume that 8.8 million figure includes salaries plus running expenses. That's why I said it would be cheaper.

[Marco Polo]

I presume that 8.8 million figure includes salaries plus running expenses. That's why I said it would be cheaper.

most employees there earn a good wage as they are skilled workers and there are a damn lot of them.

i cant imagine what managers and the like get.

how many are employed there?

[Marco Polo]

most employees there earn a good wage as they are skilled workers and there are a damn lot of them.

i cant imagine what managers and the like get.

how many are employed there?

if there are 1000 employees there then 8.8million means an average wage of Lm 8800

for 2000 it leaves an average wage of Lm 4400

[Marco Polo]

at least 1700 workers according to the site below (read between the lines)

8.8 million/1700 = Lm 5176 per worker

even if they were subsidised 10 million this would work out at Lm5882 per worker.

http://www.eurofound.europa.eu/eiro/2003/12/inbrief/mt0312102n.html

another reason so many business folk may want the docks to close is the same reason they like klandestini. it is short term and self defeating for capitalists as it gives workers less money to spend but more unemployed keeps wages down for the whole population (supply and demand)

[Gladiator]

Marco it is a known fact that the Income office dose not collect hal or almost the taxes the government owned! It is said that about 330 million liri in back taxes have never been collected.

That's the amount which was spent on the Malta drydock in the last 40 years! Wow some kind of money circulation? Remember the government is still running a deficit of 37 million liri a year! Plus the interest it has to pay out on that borrowed money? Weep do? Do the dockyard works don't get free health, free education for their children? Plus the energy they use at the dockyard, where dose it come from? Who pays for it?
Do your Math. The 2000 jobs at the Drydocks aren't worth the wages paid out!
The only party making money here is the GWU, just collecting the Union dues and for what? You as a tax payer is sustaining a Union which dose nothing to better your life.
Oh you just wait and see how much Air Malta lost for 2006? Who is going to pay for it?

[Marco Polo]

Marco it is a known fact that the Income office dose not collect hal or almost the taxes the government owned! It is said that about 330 million liri in back taxes have never been collected.

That's the amount which was spent on the Malta drydock in the last 40 years! Wow some kind of money circulation? Remember the government is still running a deficit of 37 million liri a year! Plus the interest it has to pay out on that borrowed money? Weep do? Do the dockyard works don't get free health, free education for their children? Plus the energy they use at the dockyard, where dose it come from? Who pays for it?
Do your Math. The 2000 jobs at the Drydocks aren't worth the wages paid out!
The only party making money here is the GWU, just collecting the Union dues and for what? You as a tax payer is sustaining a Union which dose nothing to better your life.
Oh you just wait and see how much Air Malta lost for 2006? Who is going to pay for it?
nothing is free as it is deducted from their wages. if each worker is being subsidised the amounts shown above the government is getting a chunk back in taxes paid directly by the workers themselves.

as i said in earlier posts, the knock on economic effects of the workers spending their money boosts other business as well as the governements coffers too.

yes i agree with you on unions but one cant just view 8.8million as being thrown into the bin as it isnt the case.

make a rough estimate of the amount of wages spent at the docks per year. is not 12 million a conservative estimate? now subtract 8.8 million from that figure and we have 3.2 million. that is the return that the nation enjoys on governments 8.8 million subsidy. a good chunk of the initial 8.8million is recollected by government also anyway.

[Marco Polo]

one needs to use the same system with air malta. like the docks, air malta is also a foreign currency earner. we are bringing foreign money into malta as if we were exporting.

the docks export our skilled labour and foreign ship owners pay malta foreign cash for their work. air malta earns foreign money through ticket purchase and also assists in maltas tourism industry and we know how precious that is.

[Gladiator]

http://www.timesofmalta.com/core/article.php?id=253435


Is this the death nell of the Malta drydocks? Brussels says no more subsides to the bankrupt drydocks. Time to close the account. Why prolong its death?

[Marco Polo]

http://www.timesofmalta.com/core/article.php?id=253435


Is this the death nell of the Malta drydocks? Brussels says no more subsides to the bankrupt drydocks. Time to close the account. Why prolong its death?

see above.

yep, they have to shape up or do some more damage to the economy. its time afm started secretly attacking ships just off the maltese coasts so they have to come in for some repairs.